Technology is a bad strategic investment

Hmmmmmmm……  I rolled 1 tech die with my Axis powers for 4 consecutive turns and hit a 6 every single time.  (This game is in the play boardgames section and is at G5, I believe)

At round 3, I have radar and war bonds for Germany (totally awesome).  The war bonds will get me about 70 IPC’s in 20 rounds.  They cost me 5 IPC’s.

I have heavy bombers with Japan and Italy.  Cost to each - 5 IPC’s.

You can’t win if you don’t play.  It’s a lottery.  If you don’t buy a lottery ticket you can’t win.  If you play the lottery regularly, you will almost certainly lose money over time.  But you also have that small chance of hitting the jackpot.

You don’t want to take risks with buying tech?  Your point is taken.  But when I roll a tech die each turn and hit LRA or radar, etc. you won’t be happy.  But it’s not my problem - I’m playing according to the rules.  :-D

And your logic is flawed.  A tech does not cost 30 IPC’s, it costs 5 to have a 1/6 chance of hitting a tech.  I understand that on average it will cost you 30 IPC’s per tech (and that’s only if you buy 1 at a time).  But you’re forgetting something else.  You (my opponent) are counting on my stack of subs in my fleet attacking at 2 and my fighters at 3 and my bombers at 4.  If I spend 20 IPC’s on research for an approx. 50-55% chance of getting a tech, and I then have a 50% chance of Super subs, jets, long range air, or heavy bombers, that may be just the boost I need to annihilate your fleet.  So you are forgetting the “surprise factor”.  Tech improvements take place immediately, but your new units that you are buying take time to be created, then deployed, then moved into position.  Tech takes place to all units (Jets, subs, bombers, etc) all over the board and can immediately pummel your opponent.  This is but one of the aspects you are completely ignoring in your analysis.

Also, you are biased in trying to make your point.  Don’t look at the 15% discount on battleships (for improved shipyards), look at the 18.75% discount on carriers or the 16.7% discount on subs.

Respectfully,
Gamer

@allweneedislove:

Jet fighters -  your engineers have found that compressing air then combusting it allows your planes to fly faster. For this you get 1 extra attack pip. for 30ipc you could just buy 3 more propeller fighters that would get you 9 more attack pips, 12 more defence pips and 3 more units that can soak up hits.

Logic is FLAWED.

How about Japan?  Have 20 fighters (or could have more) = 20 more pips, and again, all the fighters are already deployed and many are presumably in a position to attack the next round.  Your 3 new propellor fighters have to be purchased, then placed, then moved into position (which could take a couple more rounds, in some cases).

PLUS - your opponent is NOT EXPECTING this sudden boost in power.

Allweneedislove, I agree with the mathematics that you posted and I hardly use tech myself but this point can’t be dismissed:

@gamerman01:

PLUS - your opponent is NOT EXPECTING this sudden boost in power.

Technology above all creates opportunities, since it is activated immediately. And it might not change the strategic situation but in some cases it just might completely change the dynamics on a region.

Tech is fun.  That’s the point.  Like playing the lottery.  And I recall it is an OPTIONAL rule?

@MaherC:

Tech is fun.

Some disagree, me included  :wink:

so don’t use it?

@allweneedislove:

Paratroopers – the bestest and super most fun idea. but the worst of the 12 techs. Can someone actually find a way to take advantage of this rule laden technology? Here are the steps

1 you must control a territory within 3 spaces of your target
2 you must have or build an airbase
3 you must get 2infantry to that airbase
4 you must position other non paratrooper land units to also get to your target

There is no power that can take advantage of this technology.

I think you need to reconsider this statement. If you look at the map this is the most useful technology in the game. With Germany u can use France to help Sealion, West Germany to reinforce Russian advance, and if you build an airbase in Germany, Romania with a minor IC, or both it can help crush Russia by beefing up your stacks with 4-6 inf a round. Not to mention you will crush Allied landings in most of Europe as long as you have a force in France to respond with.
With England you can harass Germany everywhere in the Atlantic. With the US, after crushing Southern Italy you can take the Baltic States and practically assure the fall of France. Russia can use it to help counterattack Germany/get troops to China to face a rowdy Japan. I think the only powers to which it is useless are Japan, ANZAC, China, and France

@paratroopers for sea lion

you realize that for the cost of researching paratroopers you could just buy a transport?  and it doesn’t have a 1/6 shot of being AA’d.

Well a transport cost 7IPC and must be defended by a fleet or else it gets sunk forever. My point was additional support for Sealion. Why are you so testy MaherC?

if you are going to sea lion, then you already have a navy full of transports and some protection, yes?

5 IPC spent gives you a 1/6 shot at getting a tech token, and then you have a 1/6 shot at getting paratroopers.    I’d spend 7IPCs on a sure thing v. 5IPCs on a 1/36 chance.

or are you suggesting that you will sea lion w/only paratroopers?

stop reading into things on the internet.  wasn’t being testy, merely proposing a counter-point to yours.

Point taken. I personally would not attempt Sea Lion without rolling paratroopers on G1. On a separate note, I think people would not misunderstand you as much if you phrased your responses less tersely/aggressively.

Yes, but you all forget what Caspian Sub called Tech Power Projection. Sure, you can buy 1 Transport cheaper than a paratrooper, but your paratroopers may be closer to the front line than the transports.

I tend to agree with allweneedislove.  Most countries just cant afford the risk/benifit ratio.  My strategy:  if you are an offensive and wealthy nation like the US, Germany or Japan (after you take india), then buy tech rolls.  If you are defensive or poor like USSR, UK (in the beginning), Italy or ANZAC then don’t.

So from a ‘balance’ standpoint, using the AA50 tech tokens might actually bring the tech back to cost effectiveness rather than making it ‘overpowered’ due to the higher incomes?

@Uncle_Joe:

So from a ‘balance’ standpoint, using the AA50 tech tokens might actually bring the tech back to cost effectiveness rather than making it ‘overpowered’ due to the higher incomes?

Too early to say, I think.  If you play with tech tokens, you’ll get what you had in AA50 - that is, Italy can easily get 3-4 techs (and now ANZAC) and sometimes even scored more techs than the USA, which is ridiculous.

I advise we all play as is for several games, and then re-assess.  I think the OOB system will work well, myself.

Paratroopers can help by getting troops to the front, as well as threatening a number of other places. Suddenly the jerries can drop four more guys on England.

The second benefit is the immediate effect. Sure, I would be better off with an extra seven artillery on the Russian front. But I can’t get them there any time soon. However, a +1 for the eight artillery I DO have on the Russian front could open up a whole new array of possibilities.

On the other hand, I think the tech tokens are a more fair way to do tech, making it less luck-dependent and allowing smaller powers to make a small investment in hopes of getting a tech at some point down the line.

So what if Italy or Anzac gets a tech spending 10 IPCs? Would you rather have two jet fighters eventually or three normal fighters now? That doesn’t even account for something like heavy bombers, which would take a hell of an investment to pay off for a smaller power.