Scrambling - Too strong?

I could see it getting out of controll if its abused, but to concintrate that much air power on a single space detracts from airpower you can project on other spaces on the board.

If you are spending that much on air, i bet you’ll be having other problems on other fronts
for instance, if the US is only buying air….they can scrable 20 planes from somewhere eventualy, but that will drasticly effect thier other units, and by that i mean they might not have any…

Its a valid strategy, and exploitve…but not wise.

Well I was thinking since you can only do 6 points of strategic bombing damage to airbases why not limit the amount of aircraft it can scramble to 6.  Although, if the base is at all damaged it can’t scramble to begin with, even 1 point of damage.  I think that is the counter balance to your “infinite” amount of planes that could scramble from one base.  I do understand the arguement, allowing 10+ planes to scramble is quite alot.  You also have to think that you can put dozens of ships into one seazone, so in the end, I think the scramble option is fine the way it is.

Same arguement could be made for naval bases and their enhancement they offer.  Good post.

Just for the sake of discusion.

The factories have limited production. Major IC cost 30 and build 10 units. Minor IC cost 12 and build 3 units. In light of this, it would not seem unreasonable to say an Airbase has a scrambling limit of 6 fighters. And as a factory, it may take some damage before it close. For each damage point one less scramble. So it can scramble 3 fighters with 3 damage points, just like a factory. Now a rule like this would make sense, and it propably will be a house rule in some communities.

Then we can look at Naval Bases. Lets say one base can only repair 6 capital ships, when fully operational, that would fit the math.

@gtg21:

Im not proposing limits on units allowed in a single space - but maybe limit the number of planes you can scramble to the IPC value of the island, with zero value islands considered a value of 1 for scramble purposes.  Or perhaps a 2 planes per IPC scramble rule considering how many islands are valued at 1 or 0.

I dont want to pick on you, buddy, but imagine who will pay 15 IPC for an Airbase that can scramble one fighter only, opposite to an 16 IPC carrier that absorb two hits and “scramble” two fighters. That math look bad

In many games we have played, the unlimited scramble seems to promote super stacks. I agree w/Razor. Only minor IC can only produce 3 units, and take 6 points of damage (2X). I propose the same ratio for scramble.  Only 3 units can scramble, and take 6 points of damage. If you have 3 damage markers, then you can’t scramble, just like you can’t produce units in minor IC. With these limits in mind you could possibly allow scramble in any AB, coastal or even land locked AB (land tt). I don’t think it would be to over bearing w/limits.

Do you seriously think you can bomb an Airbase with fighter that can intercept :? :? :?

That being said, liming the number of planes to scramble based on the AB status seem a good idea. Not sure though. The only “stacks” I’ve seen were between HAW and Carolinas

I’ve seen games where Jap places 10-15 air units on Phil or Caroline + fully loaded carriers. There is no way you could attack it. The only good thing is they aren’t using them to destroy you in Asia.

As far SBR, does anyone attack facilities/IC in this game anymore. We don’t see much.

I think scrambling should be expanded, not restricted.  If someone wants to pile on the aircraft, let them.  It means I can attack elsewhere.  As for expanding, I think any coastal land zone should be able to scramble into the adjacent sea zone. That would eliminate the issue of island or not.

I like letting any airbase scramble rather than island only airbases.  And as stated before, you could just go around the mass of aircraft that are parked in the Phillipines.  I think this could be a problem for why people can’t win with Allies, they are always worried about taking out huge clusters of units and/or letting that deter any attacks they might make.  Its a nickel and dime war.  Back to topic, I think its fine overall, just have to know when to attack near an island that can scramble or just bypass it.  Hell, the Allies won the war cause we just said the hell with attacking strong points far away from anything, move past and strike deeper into enemy territory.  I think the same notion applies here, just attack around stacked airbases.

airbases can take 2 damage then they are out of commission,

so why not, an airbase with no damage (3 health left) can scramble 6 aircraft
an airbase with 1 damage (2 health left) can scramble 4 aircraft
an airbase with 2 damage (1 health left) can scramble 2 aircraft
an airbase with 3-6 damage (0 health left) can scramble no aircraft

simply: you can scramble 2x the amount of health left

@mike55:

I think scrambling should be expanded, not restricted.  If someone wants to pile on the aircraft, let them.  It means I can attack elsewhere.  As for expanding, I think any coastal land zone should be able to scramble into the adjacent sea zone. That would eliminate the issue of island or not.

I agree mike air bases should work on costal territories. Thats how I play. They should also give some bonus for territories that aren’t even coastal. I mean other then extra moment.

finnman:  From what I understand in the global game, they will give more benefits, I read it somewhere on this site.  I assume the same would go for naval bases.  If anything, there should be more airbases at the start, maybe 1 for flying tigers etc etc.

I would hope so because how many islands are in Europe

@Veqryn:

simply: you can scramble 2x the amount of health left

This setup sounds reasonable, some type of limitation on scrambling would be in keeping with the rest of the game. I completely agree about air bases defending mainland coastal areas, it doesn’t make sense that they wouldn’t. However, if you’re looking at this in terms of real-world parallels, that would mean limitations on the amount of unit’s that could been on any island at any given time. It’s not that Japan’s entire air force couldn’t scramble from Midway, it’s that they wouldn’t physically fit.

On a side note, air force should be able to be scrambled to defend against transports attempting an amphibious assault.

These sound like great house rules! I think for most, it wouldn’t drastically change gameplay. But it would help prevent super stacks and keep things looking a bit more historical, if you’re into that. I will use these.

Why not something alot simpler to implement
0 Damage (fully operational) - RAW Normal Ammount of planes (this prevents placing a limit on scrabling from Japan to the adjacent seazone, limiting them to 6 seems foolish because they usualy have more planes and more need to scramble late game) (Perhaps 6 Max scramble for islands WITHOUT a Factory)
1 Damage - 5 Planes
2 Damage - 4 Planes
3 Damage - 3 Planes
4 Damage - 2 Planes
5 Damage - 1 Plane
6 Damage - 0 Planes

@Sgt.:

On a side note, air force should be able to be scrambled to defend against transports attempting an amphibious assault.

Check the rules again.  I believe you can.

Yes, scrambling is too strong.  Yes, there should be a limit to number of ground units and air units that can be stationed on postage stamp islands.

I saw someone else’s game where the allies had built an airbase on Java and had about 10 fighters there.  I don’t think it’s always as simple as just “going around them”.  That move pretty much guaranteed this player that Japan would be out about 9 IPC’s per turn and could never take that island without very great difficulty.  This kind of a move should not be possible.

When I did my very first J1 and double checked the scramble rules, I was amazed.  Why should an attacker have to have enough force at sea to have a high percentage chance against all island fighters, and also have to have enough force against all the same fighters on the defending island?  It just doesn’t make sense.  Fair for both sides, though.

@gamerman01:

Yes, scrambling is too strong.  Yes, there should be a limit to number of ground units and air units that can be stationed on postage stamp islands.

I saw someone else’s game where the allies had built an airbase on Java and had about 10 fighters there.  I don’t think it’s always as simple as just “going around them”.  That move pretty much guaranteed this player that Japan would be out about 9 IPC’s per turn and could never take that island without very great difficulty.  This kind of a move should not be possible.

When I did my very first J1 and double checked the scramble rules, I was amazed.  Why should an attacker have to have enough force at sea to have a high percentage chance against all island fighters, and also have to have enough force against all the same fighters on the defending island?  It just doesn’t make sense.  Fair for both sides, though.

Sounds like my game…scrambling option is ridiculous and should be limited to 2-3 aircraft for islands. Also why can’t costal territories scramble?