AA50: Strategic - A New Way to Play A&A: Anniversary Edition

Subs being only $6 and the modifications to make they ‘ignorable’ really changes the whole dynamics of what subs had become in AARe.  In this sense, making convoy rules for subs in AA50 is a lot more tricky, perhaps even unecessary.

There are so many possible tweaks to AA50, getting a concensus on house rules will be difficult (unfortunately).

RE: The russian NO.  I think people give this $5 NO too much attention.  There is way more strategic importance to being in russia for many of the allied units that I will sacrifice this NO often as needed.  Perhaps I am incorrect in my opinion of this NO?

I am not a huge fan of changing the price of a unit (RE: Tanks at $6).  If the game is balanced, the $5 tank will become a non-factor.

China definitely needs some changes.  I do not necessarily like the change in order of play.  There are alot of good ideas regarding fixing China.

@axis_roll:

Subs being only $6 and the modifications to make they ‘ignorable’ really changes the whole dynamics of what subs had become in AARe.  In this sense, making convoy rules for subs in AA50 is a lot more tricky, perhaps even unecessary.

I would have to disagree. Even if you take the AARe sub without convoy raids and compare it to the AA50 sub, they are very close. Here’s why:

1. Although the AA50 sub costs 1/4 less than the AARe sub, it has 1/4 less total punch. Obviously this is not totally even but this is not all that is different.
2. AARe sub can strike and submerge; AA50 one cannot.
3. AARe sub needed a detection roll from a 10 point destroyer; AA50 sub needs no roll from an 8 point destroyer.
4. The owner of the AARe sub could choose to take it as a hit in a battle vs aircraft; the AA50 sub cannot be hit by aircraft. (without destroyers)
5. AA50 transports can run right over subs, even alone; AARe transports cannot.
This list I would say is fairly even. AARe has convoy raids. Why not give them to AA50?

@axis_roll:

China definitely needs some changes.  I do not necessarily like the change in order of play.  There are alot of good ideas regarding fixing China.

Are you saying that my ideas were a lot of good ideas or that there are a whole bunch out there?
The reason I put the change in order of play is because I see it as the simplest way to save the flying tigers and giver China a little boost. It doesn’t seem too unprecedented since in OOB AA50 the Order of play changes from 1941 to 1942. There may be a better way though. Any other ideas?

I agree that getting people to agree on house rules will be hard, but I am glad it has made it this far.

@axis_roll:

I am not a huge fan of changing the price of a unit (RE: Tanks at $6).  If the game is balanced, the $5 tank will become a non-factor

But you must admit that with the increased territories of AA50, a faster moving unit (tank) becomes more valuable. And compared to the artillery it has 1 more defense, 1 more move, and it doesn’t need to pair with infantry to have an effective 3 point attack power. Is all this only worth 1 point? I am not sure. But I think a 6 point tank should at least be tried.

@Wilson2:

@axis_roll:

I am not a huge fan of changing the price of a unit (RE: Tanks at $6).  If the game is balanced, the $5 tank will become a non-factor

But you must admit that with the increased territories of AA50, a faster moving unit (tank) becomes more valuable. And compared to the artillery it has 1 more defense, 1 more move, and it doesn’t need to pair with infantry to have an effective 3 point attack power. Is all this only worth 1 point? I am not sure. But I think a 6 point tank should at least be tried.

bombers are now $12, where’s the complaint about them?

please try to keep with the minimalistic approach:  less changes are better.

Tanks are priced fine at $5

@Wilson2:

@axis_roll:

Subs being only $6 and the modifications to make they ‘ignorable’ really changes the whole dynamics of what subs had become in AARe.  In this sense, making convoy rules for subs in AA50 is a lot more tricky, perhaps even unecessary.

I would have to disagree. Even if you take the AARe sub without convoy raids and compare it to the AA50 sub, they are very close. Here’s why:

1. Although the AA50 sub costs 1/4 less than the AARe sub, it has 1/4 less total punch. Obviously this is not totally even but this is not all that is different.
2. AARe sub can strike and submerge; AA50 one cannot.
3. AARe sub needed a detection roll from a 10 point destroyer; AA50 sub needs no roll from an 8 point destroyer.
4. The owner of the AARe sub could choose to take it as a hit in a battle vs aircraft; the AA50 sub cannot be hit by aircraft. (without destroyers)
5. AA50 transports can run right over subs, even alone; AARe transports cannot.
This list I would say is fairly even. AARe has convoy raids. Why not give them to AA50?

How will you implement convoy raids?  Like AARe?  Are you adding detection rolls into the game?
Are you enabling subs to have zones of control?

My point was that you simply can not just add convoy raid capability to AA50 subs.  There are many changes to how subs work in the AA50 game.  Of course, the new proposed convoy rules would need to be typed up for us to discuss them.

When that happens, the specific issues can be identified.

@Wilson2:

@axis_roll:

China definitely needs some changes.  I do not necessarily like the change in order of play.  There are alot of good ideas regarding fixing China.

Are you saying that my ideas were a lot of good ideas or that there are a whole bunch out there?
The reason I put the change in order of play is because I see it as the simplest way to save the flying tigers and giver China a little boost. It doesn’t seem too unprecedented since in OOB AA50 the Order of play changes from 1941 to 1942. There may be a better way though. Any other ideas?

There’s a lot of China Mods out there.  I don’t have a preference for one over the other.  The mods need to work in harmony with any other rule changes implemented.

It seems to me that AA50 balance is much more difficult, especially with NOs in play.  Once one side gets an advantage, there seems to be a snow ball effect, where the advantage grows and grows.  This can be a good thing as games are much faster (usually determined by round 6-8).

Sorry, I guess I am just a bit impatient. I really would like to know what your ideas are. Otherwise I am stuck with my ideas and having them shot down and thinking now what. That last thing I want is for this to die.

As to my idea for convoy raiding:
What I meant was that destroyers automatically detect (detection roll could be added) other convoy rules stay the same–zones of influence submerge etc.

@Wilson2:

Sorry, I guess I am just a bit impatient. I really would like to know what your ideas are. Otherwise I am stuck with my ideas and having them shot down and thinking now what. That last thing I want is for this to die.

As to my idea for convoy raiding:
What I meant was that destroyers automatically detect (detection roll could be added) other convoy rules stay the same–zones of influence submerge etc.

Type up some official rules so we can discuss the pros/cons.
Please be as complete as possible.

here it is. All typed up and official - my ideas for AA50 strategic.
Blue = new clarifications
Red = new/beta stuff

Paul’s AA50 Strategic

All rules are AA50 OOB 1941 + NOs unless stated here.

BETA: The Dardanelles strait is closed to sea movement: ships in SZ 16 may only unload/bombard in Bulgaria/romania. Caucasus and Ukraine ICs may not build ships in SZ 16.  Planes may fly over the strait unrestricted.

Changes to unit costs
Destroyers now cost 7
Cruisers now cost 11

Changes to unit attributes

All battleships are equipped with AA guns (radar does not increase this)

Each Unit with ASW capabilities can only detect 1 submarine the first round of combat. Every subsequent round this number goes up one. (In other words 2 destroyers would detect 2 subs first round, 4 next etc.)  Undetected subs are treated as if there were no destroyer in the territory (for submerging, surprise strike, and plane possible targets.) Example: 3 subs attack a cruiser and a destroyer. One sub is detected the first round. The two undetected subs get surprise strike and the detected one does not. Say all of the units miss. The second round a second sub is detected. Now, only one sub gets surprise strike.

-Due to their heavier dependence on convoys for shipping, UK,US, Italy, and Japan are subject to Convoy Raids (CR). These are economic attacks, conducted by SUBs, close to enemy shipping lanes (ie. near an IC). Russian and German ICs are not subject to such attacks.
-On the UK, US, Italian, and Japan Collect Income Phases, for every Enemy SUB within 1 SZ of (ie. directly adjacent to) an IC owned by that respective country, subtract 1IPC from their collected income. For every 2 subs raiding the same IC, subtract 1 additional IPC from the player’s income (up to territory max). If a SUB became submerged during this TURN’s Conduct Combat Phase, it does not do ANY economic damage.
-Multiple SUBs may affect a single IC, with damage capped at the Territory’s IPC value. Any individual SUB, can only affect one IC/TURN, but may affect multiple ICs/ROUND. (i.e. A sub could affect a UK IC on UK’s turn and then a US IC on US’s turn)
Subs can only be forced to submerge by combat. Note that fighters alone cannot force a sub to submerge, since if fighters and subs are the last in a seazone, the battle simply ends.

BETA: UK starts with minor factories in India. Germany starts with a minor factory in France. Minor factories may only build Infantry units and may be upgraded to factories for 8 IPCs. Upgraded minor factories may be used at full capacity the turn they are upgraded.

The tech system is reworked. Here is the new tech process

Step 1: Buy Researcher Tokens

-Each Research Token costs 7 (Minor), 10 (Moderate), 15 (Major) IPCs.
-You must declare which specific technology you are rolling for
-You must buy a minimum of 2 (but no more than 4) researchers for that specific technology
-Once you have purchased a set number of researchers for a specific technology, you cannot purchase any more.

Step 2: Roll Research Dice

-If this is the first time you are rolling for a specific technology, roll one die for each researcher you have
-Success: If you roll at least one “6”, you have achieved that technology.  Discard your remaining research tokens for that technology.
-Failure: If you do not roll a “6”, your research has failed.  Keep all your researcher tokens and continue to the Purchase Units phase of the turn.

Double-Double Rule
-If you have TWO researchers, and this is the second time you are rolling for a specific technology, roll TWO dice for each researcher you have (ie. 4 dice total, this increases to 8 dice next turn, then 16, etc.)
-If you have 3 researchers, the sequence would be 3, 9, 27…
-If you have 4 researchers, the sequence would be 4, 16, 64…

Step 3: Mark Developments

-If your research was successful, place one of your national control markers over the appropriate advancement box.  Your development becomes effective immediately.
-You can initiate research on only one new technology each turn.  You can however, be rolling for more than one technology in a turn (roll newest one first), and more than one technology can come into play on a single turn.

MINOR TECHS (7IPC/researcher, ie. minimum 14IPC)
-Increased Factory Production – Errata is ignored – all factories gain 2+ production
-Super Submarines
-Improved Shipyards
-Enhanced cruisers – Your cruisers are equipped with ASW capabilities
– Your cruisers are equipped with an AA gun. This AA may be stacked with the battleship AA gun. If defending battleship and cruiser are present, roll 1 dice @2 per attacking plane instead of 2@1.

MODERATE TECHS (10IPC/researcher, ie. minimum 20IPC)
-Rockets
-Paratroopers
-Jet Fighters
-Radar
-Mechanized Infantry
-Long range mortars (Advanced Artillery) – Your artillery attack and defend @3 first cycle of combat.
                                – Your artillery have a surprise strike first cycle of combat

MAJOR TECHS (15IPC/researcher, ie. minimum 30IPC)
-Long Range Aircraft
-Heavy Bombers

China changes
China now has IPCs, It collects IPCs as other nations and starts with 7 IPCs.
China’s turn is still with US. (not combat move and combat though)
Changed: China may purchase infantry at the cost of 2 IPC each. All other units are normal price.
Changed: China NO: If the Burma Road (Yunnan, Burma) is owned by the allies, China receives 2 extra IPCs
Flying Tigers start in Sikang instead of Yunnan.

Its nice to see you made the improvements regarding China we talked about.

Also, your convoy disruption procedure is a bit like mine except i allow thew sub to soak only 1 IPC for each sub up to the limit of any enemy controlled land territory up to the IPC limit. Otherwise you make it too easy to protect areas adjacent to factories. For example, Germany can post a sub off south Africa and with 2 subs can soak off it’s two ipc. A factory should not be a prerequisite because goods flow into and from all controlled areas, even if a factory does not exist.  i also allow German BB, and CA to act as surface raiders.

I hope you can look into my tiered approach to tech researchers, rather than start charging different prices. To reflect the ability to obtain tech, i feel it is a mistake to model it by making it more expensive, rather with my tiered approach you need a framework of lower techs achieved in order to get more major ones. It models the progression of invention from comparable ideas to more complex ones. Under my proposal all the techs are the same, but you must have successfully researched the lower tiers first. Under your system from not having any technology, it may be possible to get Atomic Bombs ( for example) from nothing or from not even have successfully gotten any techs if you paid the price.

@Imperious:

Also, your convoy disruption procedure is a bit like mine except i allow thew sub to soak only 1 IPC for each sub up to the limit of any enemy controlled land territory up to the IPC limit. Otherwise you make it too easy to protect areas adjacent to factories. For example, Germany can post a sub off south Africa and with 2 subs can soak off it’s two ipc. A factory should not be a prerequisite because goods flow into and from all controlled areas, even if a factory does not exist.  i also allow German BB, and CA to act as surface raiders.

I considered and am still considering making subs do only 1 IPC dmg and to non factories. (BTW, what I posted was not MY idea for convoy disruption. It is copy and paste from AARe) As to surface ships, I figured that convoys can avoid surface ships since they can detect them. plus I thought that it might get out of hand with all those types of ships convoying every territory on the map.
@Imperious:

I hope you can look into my tiered approach to tech researchers, rather than start charging different prices. To reflect the ability to obtain tech, i feel it is a mistake to model it by making it more expensive, rather with my tiered approach you need a framework of lower techs achieved in order to get more major ones. It models the progression of invention from comparable ideas to more complex ones. Under my proposal all the techs are the same, but you must have successfully researched the lower tiers first. Under your system from not having any technology, it may be possible to get Atomic Bombs ( for example) from nothing or from not even have successfully gotten any techs if you paid the price.

I don’t really like the tiered approach, since I wanted techs to be something that you research pretty much the tech you want for your strategy and not spend money on others, but I will look at yours and see its quality. As to atomic bomb, all I can say is that if it is at all my decision, it wont be in there. I know you think it is a great idea, but I think it is a horrible idea.

Subs should soak off not more than 1 IPC because they cost 6 and to soak two would get into a situation of something where it becomes a glitch to bankrupt nations entirely in quick fashion.

Also making surface ships like battleships and cruiser soak off two IPC is justifiable because these units cost 12 and 20 and too give them a one like subs would preclude them as surface raiders. I have played these rules for a long time and you will find it works.

I considered having a bomber or fighter being used to attack empty sea zones in the same manner as these ships, but it proved too much under playtest.

I said I would check out your tech system, but I can’t find it.

Standard Rules:

Alternative bidding system: The axis player starts with a cash fund of IPC which grows by the rate of one IPC each turn. It can be used once and when that occurs it’s used in its entirety and the fund stops growing. The fund can be used at any time even if it’s not your turn and you immediately place pieces equal to its value in any controlled territory. Unspent IPC are lost.

Dice challenge: During the course of combat rolls, each side is allowed a number of re-rolls for either a poor dice result as the attacker or defender (costs one point), or a re-roll of an air unit hit from a defending AA (costs two points). The total number of assigned points is to be determined before start of play. Players can choose how they allocate results during each turn. This is done to help alleviate some bad rolls that may occur.

Anti-Air rolls: These are now done according to Low Luck rules with any fraction still being rolled. Multiple AA guns have no effect. AA guns only fire during the combat phase and not during NCM. Only Bombers can be targeted by AA guns.

China: The Soviet player controls China starting with its own turn. The flying tiger’s fighter can be rebuilt if destroyed if the US player spends IPC for this. The US player just buys a fighter on his turn and its placed in China at the end of his turn. Also, If the total Chinese controlled territories equals an odd number, round up for the purpose of determining the placement of new infantry.

Burma Road: If Yunnan and Burma are under allied control the Chinese gain one additional infantry for free.

New Victory Cities:
Cairo and Ploesti are added as Victory Cities. The original VC requirement is still in effect, but these are added to symbolize the strategic and historical importance of these localities.

Infantry Placement at VC: Infantry only may be placed at any originally controlled VC for the cost of 4 IPC each limited to the production value of the territory. Captured VC locations can also produce Infantry, but only one each.

Tanks: All tanks now cost 6 IPC.

Conduct Convoy Disruptions:  Each Axis submarine, or surface raider (Battleship or Cruiser) located outside the Baltic and Mediterranean can potentially disrupt Allied shipping. American and British submarines only may disrupt Axis shipping and this requirement would be outside the Baltic.

Procedure: Each submarine or warship that ends its turn adjacent to the enemy controlled land territory can cause damage up to and equal to the total value of the adjacent territories. Submarines cause 1 point of damage, while Surface raiders can cause 2 points of damage. Example: Japan has 3 subs adjacent to India and takes 3 IPC from the British player’s total IPC total.

Revised Tech Tree:
Procedure: Same as AA50 except you assign your researcher to one of the following FOUR categories: Land, Sea, Air and Production. You can only assign up to one researcher per category at a time and no more than two different categories.

Research & Development Sequence:
1. Buy researcher tokens
2. Roll research dice
3. Roll breakthrough die
4. Mark development

Step 1: Buy Researcher Tokens
Each researcher token costs 5 IPC’s.

Step 2: Roll Research Dice
For each researcher you have, roll one die.

-Success: If you roll at least one “6”, you have successfully made a technological breakthrough.  Discard all your researcher tokens and continue to step 3.

-Failure: If you do not roll a “6”, your research has failed.  Keep your researcher token and continue to the Purchase Units phase of the turn. On each subsequent turn the success becomes easier and is reduced by one each turn: 6, 5,4,3,2, and eventually it is automatic.

Step 3: Roll Breakthrough Die
If you succeed on any research die, you choose any technology within the 1st tier. Additional technology research applied to the same tech category can go to a higher technology as long as you got at least one tech. For example: If you want a technology that is 3rd tier in land technology, you must have at least one 1st tier and one 2nd tier tech in that same category.
Step 4: Mark Development
If your research was successful, place one of your national control markers inside the appropriate advancement box on the research & development chart.  Your development becomes effective immediately. Any number of powers may develop the same technology, but powers cannot share their technology.

Land Technology:
Tier #1:
•  Paratroopers- Each bomber can now carry one infantry in combat or two infantry in non-combat and drop them within normal flight range. If used during the combat move, the drop of airborne troops can not be further than two spaces from your nearest land unit.
•  Mobile Warfare Doctrine- Mechanized Infantry attack at 2 on the first combat round.
Tier #2:
•  Self Propelled Artillery- Your Artillery now moves 2 spaces in NCM.
•  Tank Destroyers- Tanks hitting on a 1 can force the defender to select a unit that is not an infantry as his casualty if he has one. (either Tank, Artillery, or Mech).
Tier #3:
•  Heavy Tanks- Tanks attack at 4 on the first combat round.
•  Prepared Defenses- Artillery can now provide a +1 boost on defense for infantry units only

Sea Technology:
Tier #1:
•  Naval ASW- Cruisers are now ASW units and have the same rules as destroyers with regard to submarine interactions.
•  AA Cruisers: If your Cruisers roll a one on defense, an attacking plane can be selected as a loss.
Tier #2:
•  Sonar- Destroyers now have a first strike against subs if subs are present.
•  Super Battleships- your existing battleships attack and defend at 5 and they always fire preemptively in combat each turn (loses removed before they fire back) for either attack or defense.
Tier #3:
•  Improved Carriers- Carriers now take 2 hits and have a 3 fighter capacity. Damaged carriers can still defend with planes, but cannot launch attacks on naval units until repaired. They can launch their planes for land attacks only if damaged.
•  Super Subs- Your subs now defend at 2 and attack at 3.
Air Technology:
Tier #1:
•  Radar- any fighters you have defending and not under attack can assist adjacent territories prior to the start of combat rolls. They act immediately in these battles.
•  Torpedo Bombers- your tactical-bombers can make one targeted first round attack against naval units. If they hit the selected unit is damaged or sunk. Further combats are handled normally.
Tier #2:
•  Long Rang Aircraft- Aircraft now moves 2 extra spaces.
•  Air ASW- Aircraft can now attack submarines without the need for a Destroyer (or Cruiser with naval ASW technology).
Tier #3:
•  Heavy Bombers- roll two dice = pick the best result and apply to SBR. Also, Bombers also now attack at 5 or less and defend at 2 or less.
•  Carpet Bombing- On the first round all air units rolling a one can select defending land units hit. Further combats are handled normally.
Tier #4:
•  Jet Fighters- The attack value of your fighters is now 4 and the defense is 5.
•  Rockets- Your antiaircraft guns are now also rocket launchers. In addition to its normal combat function, during the strategic bombing raid step of your Conduct Combat phase each turn, each of your antiaircraft guns can make a single rocket attack against an enemy industrial complex within 3 spaces of it. This flak level for this is not regarded and each AA gun gets one roll.
Tier #5:
•  Atomic Bomb- Each Atomic Bombs costs 10 IPC and only one can be made each turn. When dropped no AA roll is made. Effects: 3 dice of variable damage and one die of permanent damage. The first turn this can be developed is turn 7. Prerequisite: Heavy Bombers technology.

Production Technology:
Tier #1:
•  War Bonds- add one die to IPC total each turn.
•  Lend Lease- You may now give IPC to your allies. Each transport you own gets you one D6, which is rolled and the income transferred to a friendly player on the following turn. For each enemy submarine on the map, subtract one from this total. The final result is subtracted from the giving players IPC treasury for his current turn. This transfer is made at the start of your turn before purchases.
Tier #2:
•  Underground factories- SBR hits count at ½ value rounded down.
•  Research Talent Pool- Future research costs are now reduced to 4 IPC each.

Tier #3:
•  Shipyards- subs, transports, destroyers cost one less IPC, all other ships cost two less IPC.
•  Total War- The first land or air unit built (by type) costs -1

Procedure: allocate researcher to develop a tier #1 technology in any of three categories. Once you have developed a technology you can choose one of the two choices. If you elect to develop further research in the same category and succeed, you may then either elect to choose a Tier #2 technology or pick something from a LOWER tier technology.
Eventually, you can get to a tier #3 technology and chose any lower tech.

I really don’t like that method. I prefer developing what you want rather than researching a bunch of stuff before you get where you want. Some nations can’t afford to research all that much.

I got my brother to play with the rules I put down. In a nutshell, Japan got bad rolls first round allowing UK to build an industry in both Australia and India first round. UK went for SS and build subs our of Australia. US got Naval industry and focused on Germany but built 4 subs to keep Japan occupied (and possible cannon fodder for HBs) Japan got overwhelmed by both UK industries and the overpowering china (that part needs changing). Germany went for Mech inf (we played with mech inf as moderate tech, @10 ipc/die) and due to excess money, built an industry in france (It was built in France because he decided that since Germany’s units would move fast thanks to his tech, more units was better than closer, i.e. poland IC) Germany was likely going to overpower russia except for US. NAs were not used since they are not finished.

Here are my thoughts on the rules I suggested:

Battleship AA - Good, made battleships a little tougher and made ships less vulnerable to planes.

Cruiser @ 11 - good, this unit got built in this game. (5 times 3 by US with his naval industry, 1 by Italy with enhanced cruisers, and 1 by UK in his India industry to protect a transport). It never seemed right for a cruiser with naval industry to still be even with a fighter.

Destroyer @7 - good, My worst fear (that this would make for too many destroyers didn’t come true) This did make it easier for Japan to counter US and UK’s subs
Subs get convoy raid -good. It didn’t overpower the subs, but it forced Japan to take notice of the subs and attack them rather than ignoring them.

China rules: too powerful. China swamped Japan even though it lost its fighter on a first round attack due to bad luck. Possible change: Scrap all the rules I wrote for china. Replace with these: China turn order and movement restrictions are back to OOB. China now has IPCs but may still only build infantry. China starts the game with 7 IPCs and collects IPCs like any other nation. Chinese infantry cost 2 IPCs and are placed as per OOB rules. If the burma road is owned by the allies on China’s mobilize units phase, china places 1 additional infantry for free. China fighter starts in Sikang instead of Yunnan.

Sub detection change - good, It made it so that subs could be dealt with, but not flippantly. Went well with destroyer price change.
Sub transport rule never came into play because the conditions never occurred. (The conditions might have occured once, but US decided on a different move instead)

Artillery tech - Felt just right, maybe slightly too powerful - needs more testing.

Mechanized infantry @ 10 (instead of 15) - good, Even at 20 IPC minimum, simply researching this tech is forgoing turning 10 infantry into tanks which can already move 2. Making it 15 (minimum 30) would never pay off. As it was I thought it was slightly weak.

Super subs having strike submerge ability - bad, will remove, This didn’t get much use even with UK having SS. It seemed too hodgepodge.

Cruiser tech - good, This tech worked well. Italy got it and it protected his fleet from US attack by deterring US bombers. It also kept the Russian sub from sneaking in and being a pest. (This was important since Russia had a large production one turn with low industries and was able to get a bomber). By stopping that it allowed Italy’s fleet to split once it got another transport. It will need more testing to tell whether it is too weak.

I prefer developing what you want rather than researching a bunch of stuff before you get where you want. Some nations can’t afford to research all that much.

HUH? you can develop what you want, except you cant get really impossible techs right away. Also, my system keeps the costs at 5 like OOB. The idea i am seeing from this new concept is charging more money for some techs, which makes it impossible for poor nations to develop.

If you just play the China rules as i have outlined everything is perfect. Why not try them once?

@Imperious:

If you just play the China rules as i have outlined everything is perfect. Why not try them once?

I probably will. Please note that since posting on this thread I have only played the game once, with the rules I stated earlier. I like the idea of US being able to replace Chinese fighter. I also ran a J1 simulation using a version of no luck and found that with normal odds, Japan is set up to take easily either India or Australia J2.

@Imperious:

HUH? you can develop what you want, except you cant get really impossible techs right away. Also, my system keeps the costs at 5 like OOB. The idea i am seeing from this new concept is charging more money for some techs, which makes it impossible for poor nations to develop.

Upon looking at your tech system again, I like it a lot better, and to a degree what you say is true. Your land tree looks good. Your production tree looks ok, but with that in play, you couldn’t get to naval production till turn 4-6, kind of rough for a production tech which gets best use at the beginning of the game. I like the air, except I think Heavies should be replaced with rockets. Why make the player upgrade his bombers before he can get better fighters? In theory, it looks good, but have you really ever used jet fighters? To get to level 5, the game would have to have gone on for roughly 10 turns. The sea tech tree is what I really cannot stand. Why should you have to upgrade your cruisers and your battleships before you can get super subs? All of the techs in the sea tech tree have nothing to do with the others, except the 2 cruiser techs which are on the same level. Also, your tech system assumes that one is playing with tactical bombers and mechanized infantry, both of which are not in AA50.

I like the air, except I think Heavies should be replaced with rockets.

Where they are on the tier is only as important as how much the techs impact the game. Should under play test it prove that they should exchange positions on the tree… that perfectly fine. My play testing shows they are fine as they are but you may have another experience.

Why make the player upgrade his bombers before he can get better fighters?

I think bombers are too viable at 12 IPC, The effect of this tech may prove too strong it it comes early because of this cost.

Why should you have to upgrade your cruisers and your battleships before you can get super subs?

I went Historical on this decision. Also super subs are 6 IPC and potentially a game changer if they come too early. I prefer more expensive units getting the spotlight first because its harder to buy them and glitch the game with hordes of them roaming around.

All of the techs in the sea tech tree have nothing to do with the others, except the 2 cruiser techs which are on the same level. Also, your tech system assumes that one is playing with tactical bombers and mechanized infantry, both of which are not in AA50.

Yes this is true. I assume most people own AAP40 and have these pieces and are eager to use them again. But alot of my ideas always try to introduce new units like Cruisers, which latter became standard. Sometimes you got to push the boundary outside the comfort zone. I could work on them.