They can lose. Even mildly careless behavior can cause either team to lose—even with a huge bid or starting advantage. That’s just what kind of game this is. Have a great player play until Turn 6, then put a first time player in their seat and give them control of the other side to watch how quickly this swings.
J-3 DOW on W.Allies. J-1 buy Poll
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Slow day here at work. No new client requests so here is what this essentially looks like the end of the day. Blue is noncombat. Taking guam and midway to try to get perimeter NO.
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Turn 3 DOW. with NB you can go anywhere.
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Usually three transports, which keeps all the Allies wondering what Japan is going to do. Building an MIC is telegraphing that you’re going after India and/or Russia, which lets ANZAC and US off the hook somewhat. I have done the MIC build but I usually go with three transports.
I typically follow that up on J2 with four transports and a carrier.
EDIT: Sometimes it’s ok to tell India that it’s going to die horribly no matter what else happens. :-D
Marsh
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I alternate between the 3 trn buy and the 2trn, IC buy. Both are strong imho, they just have slightly different focuses. Grabbing as many of the DEI, Phi, and Malaya on the turn you DOW is usually key towards upping Japan’s income and more transports are needed in order to accomplish that goal.
The 2 transport buy allows you to go after those important territories right off the bat. Early on especially, those transports aren’t going to be bringing many troops to the mainland as they’ll be focusing on grabbing islands. So plunking a minor down early really helps Japan get the troops they need on the mainland in order to control the road longterm as well as eventually push into India.
A 3rd transport bought gives Japan a little flexibility in landing somewhere to disrupt the Aussie NOs. Sometimes an allied player will stack a single island heavily in order to deny the Japanese their NO. Having an extra transport could be handy in those situations. But more importantly a 3rd transport can be the difference in pulling off a J3 India crush and I like to have that flexibility if I see an opportunity. Another strike against the minor is Japan’s lower income at the start of the game. It’s hard to justify fully using all 3 build slots every turn before Japan’s income climbs into the 50-60 IPC range. There are just so many things Japan needs to build and only so much money to spread around.
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Looking for opinions with explanations. Question is: Where do people generally put the factory if purchased on J1 (assume no DOW on UK/Anzac/FIC)? We have also been experimenting with a NB on the first turn in Kwangsi to facilitate the transport shuck shuck and the ability to threaten india instantly.
Shanghai for the first MiC Japan puts down. Three mechs per turn after that no matter what. Maybe even 2 mechs 1 armor on the first purchase, depending on what China is looking like and where the USA has been spending their IPCs. As far as the NB goes, it is a strong purchase and a strong placement but I tend to get a 2nd MiC on the mainland first then the NB to try and get a three headed monster of troop spawning going. Usually the 2nd is in FIC or perhaps Hong Kong if the Burma Road is being heavily guarded and dice rolls haven’t been going so well for Japan. Then with the NB you can get a good shuck-shuck system going.
On a side note I do believe that without a J1 DOW then Germany and Italy really have to be doing well on the other side to get some USA income being spent in that theatre. If USA goes full Pacific and is in strong position when it’s at war then Japan without a strong income because of no DOW might have some issues.
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The Shanghai factory is a major ongoing investment….
Every turn , Japan invests $12 there from the very first turn… in Mechs…Should USSR march the Siberian horde back to Moscow, would it not be better to “steal” the:
6 Inf+ 1Art from Manchuria–>Jehol
and the 4 Inf from Korea, and utilize the 6 Inf+2Art+tank in Japan and 1 Inf in IwoJima and 1 Inf in Okinawa
all added = 18 Inf + 3 Art+ Tank ie => 11 TR LoadsLets say , that we spare 4 Inf from Manchuria to keep going into Northern China… , that brings it to 9 TR loads.
Japan starts with 3 TRs… On J1 - 2 TR loads are used
If buy is 2 more TRs in J1 , they use 2 more TR loads
if J2 buy is 4 TRs … , that is 4 more TR loads.
Leaving 3 TR loads remaining… that still have to be used.
In reality , there are 5 TR loads remaining… ( i use the 2 Inf+ AAA from Carolines) , as well as the Palau Inf and Manchuria AAA also… since the Carolines Inf usually die when the US comes in.
Yes, the Mechs are mobile…. and catch up with the front line troops…, but is the investment worth it? Esp when so many troops are staying unused.
Lets say for 4 turns Japan produces ( 12) Mechs… that is $12+ $48 = $60
This is 3 CV+ 2 Subs equivalent… that Japan loses out on.
To me, 3 TR buy is a better investment than an mIC… Unless the plan is to help Germany get Moscow… by invading USSR from the rear.
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If I do build an MIC with Japan I pump out infantry first (takes longer to get there) and then fast movers later on unless I have a definitive early need for fast movers.
Marsh
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The Shanghai factory is a major ongoing investment….
Every turn , Japan invests $12 there from the very first turn… in Mechs…Should USSR march the Siberian horde back to Moscow, would it not be better to “steal” the:
6 Inf+ 1Art from Manchuria–>Jehol
and the 4 Inf from Korea, and utilize the 6 Inf+2Art+tank in Japan and 1 Inf in IwoJima and 1 Inf in Okinawa
all added = 18 Inf + 3 Art+ Tank � ie => 11 TR LoadsLets say , that we spare 4 Inf from Manchuria to keep going into Northern China… , that brings it to 9 TR loads.
Japan starts with 3 TRs… � On J1 - 2 TR loads are used
If buy is 2 more TRs in J1 , they use 2 more TR loads
if J2 buy is 4 TRs … , that is 4 more TR loads.
Leaving 3 TR loads remaining… that still have to be used. �
In reality , there are 5 TR loads remaining… ( i use the 2 Inf+ AAA from Carolines) , as well as the Palau Inf and Manchuria AAA also… � since the Carolines Inf usually die when the US comes in.
Yes, the Mechs are mobile…. and catch up with the front line troops…, but is the investment worth it? Esp when so many troops are staying unused.
Lets say for 4 turns Japan produces ( 12) Mechs… that is $12+ $48 = $60
This is 3 CV+ 2 Subs equivalent… that Japan loses out on.
To me, 3 TR buy is a better investment than an mIC… Unless the plan is to help Germany get Moscow… by invading USSR from the rear.
I don’t get a lot of this, I understand trying new things… but is the Mechs on Minors a broken strategy for Japan?
Land units for Japan exist and are purchased for many reasons like fighting Calcutta, China, and Russia. Land units don’t exist for the sole purpose of loading massive amounts of transports, there needs to be diverse spending in my opinion. Maintaining a transport fleet of 5, plus 2 factories in Shanghai and FIC is a great balance for all the objectives Japan needs to accomplish to be successful. I’ve never heard of an Allied counter that is forcing us to rethink factory and mech purchases for Japan. Sure we can add up all that money and describe an alternative purchase of units, but just because this amount of mechs and factories could buy us this amount of aircraft carriers and subs doesn’t mean we should. If the 5 transports get sunk for what ever reason, I want to be able to get land units on the mainland while I rebuild those transports, and I’m screwed if I don’t already have factories pumping out mechs. How would buying just transports instead of factories win the Axis the war?.. both factories and transports have value the other doesn’t.
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Factory for the reasons already mentioned and the transports to jump on all the $$ islands when its time.
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Why 2TTs? What troops are you going to put on them J2? Japan has 3inf 2art 1arm removed J1 leaving 3inf 3aaa.
2TTs mean you’ll be relegated to shipping AAA to the mainland or picking up some inf from the islands unless I’m missing something.
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Why 2TTs? What troops are you going to put on them J2? Japan has 3inf 2art 1arm removed J1 leaving 3inf 3aaa.
2TTs mean you’ll be relegated to shipping AAA to the mainland or picking up some inf from the islands unless I’m missing something.
The TT in SZ 6 picks up a Inf, Arm. The transport next to Manchuria picks up a Inf and Art from Manchuria. There is a third transport two sz’s away from Japan with no NB next to it. By my count there should still be two art left to go on turn 2.
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Hmm, that’s not what I do. SZ19 TT picks up inf+arm from Japan and lands them on the 3IPC territory.
SZ20 TT lands two units on Korea.
Perhaps it doesn’t work very well???
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I’ve never tried it that way before. I always try to send the TTs south even if it takes an extra turn. I might look into your way next game.
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J2 the Arm can reach Kweichow where I like to be strong because you can threaten both Yunnan and Szechwan as well as Shensi and make it basically impossible for the Allies to hold the Burma Rd even with a UK2 DOW. Throw in the mech and air support and you are also threatening Sikang.
The units landed on Korea can be attacked USSR3 but that both nullifies the Mongolian rule and is not too difficult to counter attack even if positioning takes a turn.
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There are 2 main uses for the Tank in Japan
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To drop it on Soviet Far East, alone. It chews through Soviet Territory pretty quick.
Should Germany not buy anything but Land Units directed at Moscow on G1 and G2, the Soviets will have to pull everything back as quickly as possible.
The Japanese tank gets 1,3,5,7 IPC in first 4 rounds = 16 IPC, that USSR will not have R5-R6 …makes Germany’s task a little easier.
Of course, for Japan, it’s great to have the extra $$$, helps them toward the 60 IPC mark by J5.
J6 onward, the Tank has produced income to fund a DD buy every turn! -
Or… land the tank on HongKong/Kwangsi J1…with Mech ,and 2-3 Inf, might just hold Yunnan against C2 attack.
Sidenote- J1, if the AAA gun is brought down from Manchuria, it being present on C2 counter, may make the Chinese player hesitate.
The factory in HongKong has to generally produce Mechs in order to be effective. The only time, in my opinion this is a must is if Moscow/ Stalingrad is the main target of the Northern Japanese army.
Otherwise for a J3 -DOW, it’s a terrible waste of resources.
The advantage of J3 DOW, is that Japan can build TRs…and move them to foreward positions for the strike.
The sidebenefit is that there is time for redeployment of the InF sitting on Islands (5 Inf+ AAA) and Korea/Manchuria (10 Inf+Art+AAA)… total cost of 59 IPC.
Forgetting the AAA… just the 15 Inf+Art = 8 TR loads… = 49 IPC.To actually produce these in factories as Mechs…costs 64 IPC, that can instead be used to buy Navy…negating the US $ advantage.
4 extra CVs (for $64) , with 4 FTR and 4 TB already present, puts a deadly strike force, and a formidable defense!
Now, if US has to match this, it has to not only buy CVs, it also has to BUY the 8 planes for $84 … !
A factory in French Indo on J4 and Malaya on J4 are probably more cost effective.
mIC in IC can produce cheap Inf on first turn, then Mechs on next turn, then Tanks on the turn after…when there is lots of money.As long as the 7-8 TRs are kept secure, they present an amphibious threat to India…then to W. OZ.
J1 Buy = 3 TR , save $5. Collect $41…total $46
J2 Buy = 2 CV + 2 TR … Collect $46
J3 Buy = 2 CV+ DD+SubBattlefleet 1 - BB+ CV based in Malaya. 2 TRs
Battlefleet 2 - BB+ CV+DD+CRU based in Java. TR
Battlefleet 3 - 2 CV+CRU+ DD based in PHP. 2 TR
Battlefleet 4 - Homefleet - 2 CV+DD+Sub
Battlefleet 5 - BB+CV +TR in Sumatra. TR2 DDs are usually the blocker sacrifices in SZ45 and SZ55… in the larger interests oF the divided Battlefleets. This is only if Queensland is brimming with USN.
If Royal Navy has backed off India, following mega-Japanese Navy deployment in Malaya and Java on J2…then accordingly Malaya and Sumatra Battlefleet will be adjusted, depending on Queensland USN strength.
After this…the IJN will be concentrated in PHP and SZ6… or Malaya waters and PHP… depending on what Allies do.
But the impt point is that the TRs should mostly survive and concentrate in Malaya…on J4…so as to either hit India and Burma…or W.Oz …etc
If the mIC is built on J1… the J2 Navy Buy cannot be made, Navy in PHP or Homewaters will be understrength…and the divided Battlefleet will be targets for Allied Navy at end of J3.
MeinHerr
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Correction…I meant J1 factory in Shanghai, not Hongkong.
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There are 2 main uses for the Tank in Japan
- To drop it on Soviet Far East, alone. It chews through Soviet Territory pretty quick.
Should Germany not buy anything but Land Units directed at Moscow on G1 and G2, the Soviets will have to pull everything back as quickly as possible.
The Japanese tank gets 1,3,5,7 IPC in first 4 rounds = 16 IPC, that USSR will not have R5-R
At the cost of triggering the Mongolian rule J3.
- To drop it on Soviet Far East, alone. It chews through Soviet Territory pretty quick.
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There are 2 main uses for the Tank in Japan
- To drop it on Soviet Far East, alone. It chews through Soviet Territory pretty quick.
Should Germany not buy anything but Land Units directed at Moscow on G1 and G2, the Soviets will have to pull everything back as quickly as possible.
The Japanese tank gets 1,3,5,7 IPC in first 4 rounds = 16 IPC, that USSR will not have R5-R
At the cost of triggering the Mongolian rule J3.
** True. The Mongolian rule will be triggered on J3. They start moving on R4. Earliest they get to Moscow will be R7 (2 Inf) R8 (1 inf)… The IPCs the Japanese gain each turn, is much more more significant than than the Mongolians impact on the game.**
If the Mongolians step out of Mongolia they get killed easy.
As far as gaining IPC… only the 1 Inf on UlanBataar gets 1 IPC for Soviets… everything else is Chinese or already Soviet.
By J3, China would have been pushed pretty far back.
The early IPCs help in Naval buy to swamp the Allied navy.Unless Japan maintains its naval superiority over the combined Allied navy, it is done for. This is most important in the J4, J5 turn… as the US would have kicked into production on US3 only.
US4 moves US3 buy it to Hawaii… Japan can handle the initial US NAvy and US builds, as long as it is matching it CV for CV.Now it has to choose where to focus… Atlantic or Pacific…
If Japan gets 64+ IPC for more than 2 turns in a row (J4,J5,J6) … usually Allies will lose either in Pac or Atlantic (barring unforseen dice rolls).
The 64+ IPC is significant, because it means, the Naval+Air builds are so massive, and bring into operation 2 CVs+ 2DDs+2 Subs in a row for 2 turns… , which means… with the starting 3 CVS, and build of 4 more CVs in rounds 2 and 3 => 3+2+2+2+2 (assume 1 CV is lost in operations) = 10 CVS…and with a single TB build… brings this massive force to bear on Allied Navy in Hawaii… or Queensland… on J7… ( India should have fall by J7… or will be on the brink of falling J8)…
Factory on mainland on J4 ( Indo-C and Malaya), producing Inf, Mechs and Tanks (J5,J6,J7)… should take care of business in India, freeing the bulk of the Airforce to fill the Carrier Decks by J6-J7.
But iam sure other players have their methods/styles. This might be new or hyper aggressive… will be different with a US - KJF approach.
But again with a KJF… putting a mIC on Shanghai on J1 is not a good idea. Once committed, its too late. 3 TRs give the flexibility…
MeinHerr
(Only time this is not true, is if it sells out to help Germany take Moscow… and get an Axis win in the Euro-side)
- To drop it on Soviet Far East, alone. It chews through Soviet Territory pretty quick.
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Don’t the Mongolians stop the tank and claim back some of the territory it conquered?
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I’m of the mindset that Japan should buy MICs when they can afford to do so. 3 transports is the way to go early in the game, it’s cost effective and leaves all options open since your navy is dominant.
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