@Baron:
If you add the 2 hits points AAA to 4 IPCs cost, you get something when mixing with Infantry units which becomes around 55% vs 45% better than pure Infantry.
So this can be the way to make AAA really a defensive unit depicting stronger fortification and bunkers.
I could buy the “2 HPs for a free hit” factor if you were talking about Berlin’s three massive Flak towers… and we are talking about Berlin’s three massive flak towers… there were only 3 built like that anywhere in the Reich. Giving someone a free hit, especially that cheap is a big deal in the scheme of things, and you’re going to have people buying a disproportionate amount of AAA for that one reason. I don’t think it’s a good idea. Maybe give Germany a stand-alone Flak Tower unit in Germany that acts that way, but not purchasable and mass produced.
Yeah, I think Wolfshanze is right - well put
I still think targeting 2@2 is about the most reasonable change to AAA if we are going to make any change. Perhaps also remove the first strike aspect.
@Baron:
If you add the 2 hits points AAA to 4 IPCs cost, you get something when mixing with Infantry units which becomes around 55% vs 45% better than pure Infantry.
So this can be the way to make AAA really a defensive unit depicting stronger fortification and bunkers.I could buy the “2 HPs for a free hit” factor if you were talking about Berlin’s three massive Flak towers… and we are talking about Berlin’s three massive flak towers… there were only 3 built like that anywhere in the Reich. Giving someone a free hit, especially that cheap is a big deal in the scheme of things, and you’re going to have people buying a disproportionate amount of AAA for that one reason. I don’t think it’s a good idea. Maybe give Germany a stand-alone Flak Tower unit in Germany that acts that way, but not purchasable and mass produced.
In fact, having too much AAA (even at 4 IPCs) with only a few Infantry is sub-optimal. (Like having a lot of Transport, doesn’t increase the defense factor in Naval combat.)
The ratio is around 3 AAA with 8 Infantry to be a better defense than 12 Infantry. (55% vs 45% odds of survival) an avg increase of 10% only.
So a 4 IPCs 2 hits AAA is not that OP.
Also, be imaginative, such 2 hits unit is now able to depict Atlantic Wall, Maginot Line, Siegfried Line or Gustav Line.
Infantry is not a purely defensive unit but AAA is.
Giving a slightly better odd than pure Infantry defense seems not that OP.
Remember, with AAA only ground units it is auto-destroy
My point is to try 2 hits AAA at 5 IPCs. No big change.
Infantry remains best in that case.
Maybe auto-repair increase the unit value enough.
That way, it still can be an incentive to defend Normandy instead of fleeing to Paris waiting to counter attack.
If you have 2-hit auto-repair AAA, I would suggest you make it mandatory that both hits to AAA must be taken before any other unit, like infantry, is taken as a casualty. Otherwise you have sort of the equivalent of aircraft carriers and battleships, with the auto-repair.
If you have 2-hit auto-repair AAA, I would suggest you make it mandatory that both hits to AAA must be taken before any other unit, like infantry, is taken as a casualty. Otherwise you have sort of the equivalent of aircraft carriers and battleships, with the auto-repair.
That is the idea.
Same AAA at 5 IPCs but 2 hits.
No different game mechanic.
Concrete is easier to repair than blasted hull and exploded compartment.
I don’t understand the rationale of this 2 hit idea?
The only rationale is to have a vivid, 6 page conversation about a piece that isn’t broken or imbalanced and that nobody needs more than a few of.
I don’t understand the rationale of this 2 hit idea?
@Baron:
@Baron:
Do not forget that AAA have no offensive capacity.
Infantry have a way to reach up to Att @2.
AAA have only defensive and fodder purpose and it is a high cost fodder at 5 IPCs.@Baron:
@Arthur:
The circumstance comes up almost every single game: a final raid on Moscow. Usually you know that the Germans have one or two rounds to do the attack and then have to return their planes to western Europe to defend against Allied invaders. Russia must choose how to spend their final 10-15 PUs. The choice might only change the outcome by a couple percentage points, but why not take the best odds.
IMO, a unit which is only good to purchase in this particular condition should be improve to be balanced vs other units specially Infantry, since it is THE fodder unit par excellence, and AAA are meant to be use as fodder too after the initial combat round, since they have no attack value.
Also, can we really compare 2 AAAs (10 IPCs) with 1 Fighter and the tactical possibility it can generate?I know it is not suppose to become a new idea thread (but I can refrain myself :-D), what do you think about this?
If we acknowledge that AAA is to figure defensive kind of weapons which need a lot of hard work to move from one place to another, hence it only moves during Non-Combat Move phase.
What if AAA becomes also a way to simulate defensive features and fortification?Anti-Aircraft Artillery
Attack: 0
Defense: 0 or 1 preemptive against up to 3 planes, which ever the lower.
Move: 1, NCM only
Hit point value: 2, no repair needed if it survives combat
Cost 5
This means that AAA can take a free hit the same way Battleship does (or 1914 Tank does).Do you believe people will want to buy a few more of them, more often?
Can it become a way to simulate an Atlantic Wall for Germany?
Can it become a more interesting fodder?
Such 2 hits unit is able to depict Atlantic Wall, Maginot Line, Siegfried Line or Gustav Line.
Infantry is not a purely defensive unit but AAA is.
Remember, with AAA only ground units it is auto-destroy.
My point is to try 2 hits AAA at 5 IPCs.
No big change.
Infantry remains best in that case.
Maybe auto-repair increase the unit value enough.
That way, it still can be an incentive to defend Normandy instead of fleeing to Paris waiting to counter attack.
The only rationale is to have a vivid, 6 page conversation about a piece that isn’t broken or imbalanced and that nobody needs more than a few of.
To be honest, I never expected a multi page debate about AAA… I thought it would get a few hits then vanish… I’m as surprised as anyone about this post getting so much discussion.
This is another rationale about the weakness of AAA.
Its value depends on attacker tactics.
And most of the time worth only 1 hit.
@Arthur:
I sometimes buy them for a known raid against Moscow or London when the calculator suggests a better final outcome. If the attacker has any choice to use the planes elsewhere or skip the attack, buying a AAA does not make sense.
