LHTR: Larry Harris Tournament Rules

[Krieghund]

@sharps54:

1. In Appendix II B. Phase 4. Part 1. page 33 (from the PDF on this site) it has the defending US sub submerge while an enemy destroyer is still in the fight, is this just a mistake? If not I don’t understand how the US sub can submerge.

Yup, it’s a mistake.

@sharps54:

2. Also about subs, if the German sub in SZ 8 doesn’t move during G1 then there is no way the British transport from SZ 2 can conduct an amphibious assault on Algeria correct?

Correct.

@sharps54:

Where I am getting confused is that the rules say

If any submarine submerges, it is returned to the game board, and is placed on its side to indicate it is submerged. It remains submerged until the end of the noncombat move phase. The submarine then resurfaces regardless of whether enemy units are still there; this does not trigger combat. The presence of a submerged submarine does not make a sea zone hostile, so enemy sea units may move freely into or through any sea zone containing a submerged submarines, and enemy transports may load or offload there.

If a fighter attacked the German sub in SZ 8 in UK1 and it submerged the battleship and transport from SZ 2 could move off the coast of Algeria (SZ 12) but only during the noncombat phase, do I have that right?

Yes.

@sharps54:

If so the British attack on Algeria on UK1 (assuming the German sub is left in SZ 8 at the end of G1) looks like this:
Combat move:
A fighter from the UK attacks the German sub in SZ 8 to make it submerge or destroy it. At the same time the Eastern Canada transport takes the tank and amphibious assaults Algeria (I guess with the UK bomber and the AE fighter if it somehow survived)
IF that works
NonCombat move:
Transport off UK (SZ 2) takes units from UK to the newly conquered Algeria?

That works.

@sharps54:

ETA one more question, under Industrial Complexes it says:

Usable by Invading Forces: If a territory is captured, an industrial complex there is also
captured. The capturing player can use it on the turn after it is captured. Industrial complexes are
never destroyed. You cannot place your new units at an industrial complex owned by a friendly
power, unless its capital is in enemy hands. Even if you liberate a territory with an industrial
complex in it, you cannot use the complex; the original controller can use it on his or her next
turn.

This is a little confusing, so if Britian builds a complex in South Africa, Germany takes England, now that England is occupied the US can build at England’s South Africa complex?

Not exactly.  If South Africa was also in Axis hands, then the US liberated it while the United Kingdom was still under Axis control, the US would gain control of South Africa rather than handing it back to the UK.  Under these circumstances, the US could use the IC.  However, as soon as the United Kingdom was liberated, South Africa and its IC would revert to UK control, so the US would no longer be able to use it.

[sharps54]

Thanks for the clarification!
Jason

[planetside]

Hi, just got the game and found the rulebook to be quite confusing so I began poking around various fansites and found the LHTR 2.0 which I found much less confusing.  However there were still a couple of this I wasn’t 100% sure on.

1. Can you unload an anti-aircraft gun on amphibious assualt provided that it was loaded in the non combat move of a previous turn?
Assuming you can’t and it has to unload next turn during non combat move provided the amphibious assault wa succesful.

2. On p 21 it states

Transports can move to friendly coastal territories and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded,
moved or offloaded during the combat move or combat phase.

Therefore can transports unload/load after combat but have not moved during combat phase (LHTR only?) e.g. after the scenario above, britain waits its next turn so it may unload its AA gun.
a. Germany attacks the transport, it misses and decides to submerge

b. Britain elects to stay in zone with subs and fights them on their turn winning the battle, may they now unload or load units to/from friendly territory in non combat move and thus be able to unload that AA gun.

Cheers.

[Hobbes]

@planetside:

1. Can you unload an anti-aircraft gun on amphibious assualt provided that it was loaded in the non combat move of a previous turn?
Assuming you can’t and it has to unload next turn during non combat move provided the amphibious assault wa succesful.

No. AA Guns can only move during non-combat.

If the transport participated on the amphibious landing then the AA Gun would be left in the transport since a transport loads/moves/offloads in either combat or non-combat move phases. It can’t do actions on both phases like offloading both in combat and in non-combat movement. This has to do with your next question.

2. On p 21 it states

Transports can move to friendly coastal territories and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved or offloaded during the combat move or combat phase.
Therefore can transports unload/load after combat but have not moved during combat phase (LHTR only?) e.g. after the scenario above, britain waits its next turn so it may unload its AA gun.
a. Germany attacks the transport, it misses and decides to submerge

b. Britain elects to stay in zone with subs and fights them on their turn winning the battle, may they now unload or load units to/from friendly territory in non combat move and thus be able to unload that AA gun.

Cheers.

Yes. The transport would have to wait until the next UK non-combat phase to unload the AA Gun, assuming it survives a German attack.

[planetside]

Thanks for the answers.  Just to clarify:

Yes. The transport would have to wait until the next UK non-combat phase to unload the AA Gun, assuming it survives a German attack.

In that scenario, the transport would be able to do the non-combat unload in the same turn as the conduct of combat?

[Krieghund]

No, it would not.  Participation in combat prevents unloading in the noncombat movement phase.

[von Jelen]

Hello, this is my first post on aa forum.

Q:
What happens when for example:

Germany takes Moscow and lose Berlin same turn. So only Japan stays, dose Japan has right to use factory in Moscow? Or it must wait for allies to take Moscow back and then try to take it (assuming that Japan wants to take it)?

Can airplanes attack subs, and if do why sub can not fight back?

[jsp4563]

Japan will have to wait for the allies to liberate Moscow and then capture it before it can be used by Japan.

Fighters can only attack subs if a Destroyer is present.  Subs can never hit aircraft so any hits by the subs would go against the Destroyer(s) or any other naval vessels present.  If attacking a combined fleet Subs and Surface ships\CV aircraft with only air power, the subs do not participate and can’t be taken as casualties.

[Krieghund]

@Emperor:

Japan will have to wait for the allies to liberate Moscow and then capture it before it can be used by Japan.

Correct.

@Emperor:

Fighters can only attack subs if a Destroyer is present.  If attacking a combined fleet Subs and Surface ships\CV aircraft with only air power, the subs do not participate and can’t be taken as casualties.

Sorry, but this is incorrect.  In LHTR, air units can always hit subs.

@Emperor:

Subs can never hit aircraft so any hits by the subs would go against the Destroyer(s) or any other naval vessels present.

Correct.

[von Jelen]

Thanks guys.

In my opinion if Japan army enters occupied Moscow, after fall of Berlin it should get Moscow resource.

[Krieghund]

The reason that it doesn’t is because it would require taking territory from a friendly power, which is not allowed.  However, you are always free to make house rules.

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

[jsp4563]

@Krieghund:

@Emperor:

Fighters can only attack subs if a Destroyer is present.  If attacking a combined fleet Subs and Surface ships\CV aircraft with only air power, the subs do not participate and can’t be taken as casualties.

Sorry, but this is incorrect.  In LHTR, air units can always hit subs.

Can you elaborate, It was my understanding that you could not attack subs unless you have a destroyer along with the aircraft.  We are talking AA50 correct?

[General 6 Stars]

So Jennifer did you decide what version you like. 1.3 or 2.0

[Jennifer]

@SS:

So Jennifer did you decide what version you like. 1.3 or 2.0

To be honest, anything but G40 is rather defunct now.  However, I would like to see some minor changes in the next incarnation.

• England needs some sort of buffer to allow it to survive Germany until America arives.  Assuming my loophole I believe Krieg said worked does, in fact, work. (I may be mistaken and he may not have said it.)
• The technologies need to be improved or removed from the game.  I love the concept of tech, but the benefits given the new board and units are not commensurate with their price.
• Japan needs another transport. IMHO it should be at the Carolines, but Formosa or Japan would work just as well.
• Russia needs 3 more armor and another plane.  I know it is not in line with history, but a Strategic Bomber would be ideal.  Failing that, a fighter. (Yes, a fighter, not a tactical bomber.  Need the defense if you are giving up the utility of the strategic’s range.)
• Italy could use 2 more submarines or that blessed British fleet should be moved through the Suez to the other side.
• Replace the moving of the England ships/Italian extra units and the English buffer and move the British Med Fleet to SZ 110. (This might be WAY too powerful given Scramble rules, but it WOULD end an early Sea Lion.)

Otherwise, I like certain aspects of AARe and AA50-Enhanced.  I believe the AAR board is the most conducive to game play for new players and veterans and it is the board and rule set I will be using to teach my children when they come of age.  It is large enough to allow variance in the game while small enough to use for game play instruction.  I would most likely use LH Rules to amend the game, as back then they really did make significant and important changes.  Unlike most of the Alpha Rules today. (My opinion, feel free to argue against itif you wish.)

[General 6 Stars]

Well i was looking at playing spring 42 because it looks like the easiest game to teach somebody because of just the 5 countries and one step above the revise game with victory cities involved.

[Jennifer]

Revised only has 5 countries as well.

[General 6 Stars]

ya I know just that victory conditions different ( capture 2 capitals ). Well I have all the games. Just looking for most balance game rules. Is it larry’s 1.3 or 2.0 or just use revised rules. have each country srart with a tech of there choice and just play from there.

[General 6 Stars]

Playing game with no tech and no’s. Playing with IL’s oil production rules and map, and some event cards. Capture 2 capitals for win. Using oil rules makes you purchase things more in just ground or air or ships. because you might be 1 icp short ( oil token ) to buy something else. Also the event cards add a nice twist to the game. Right now Japan running tanks into Russia, Germany controls Africa, UK in Norway, US getting ready for D-Day, Russia’s now got to run troops back towards the east. They had a nice push into Germany. Uk US gettin ready to help Russia. US gettin ready to mess with Japan in the pacific.

[Guppers]

Hey guys, first time poster here.
  I noticed the last post was a year ago so I hope I’m not falling on deaf ears.  I played A&A for the first time in 2003 probably and it was on the original game board and I had a lot of fun but didn’t get a chance to play it again until this last week.  The board my friend had was different than the one I originally used and I read and understood the rules thoroughly.  I thought we were using revised rules but I found some inconsistencies in the ones we used and the ones I found here (link removed cause I Didn’t realize I couldn’t post links, but I dont’ want to change all of my paragraphs, but these were the LHTR 2.0 I found on this forum)

Are these the “standard” rules that people would play in general tournaments?  Because I’d like to get into this game so I’d want to learn on the most common rule set first before branching off.

I read the rules on that link thoroughly and although I dont’ have my friends instruction book anymore I remember what it said and there were a lot of differences, some very significant.
-there was no research at all
-AA guns only got to fire if they were being attacked (planes could pass over enemy AA safe from what I understood, so long as they didn’t attack)
-when you did strategic bombing it did damage points to the IC  that limited production at that IC by the        amount of damage points done. Up to twice the countries value.
-the naval stuff was WAAAAYYYY cheaper.  subs cost 6, carriers 14, transports were 7
-transports had no attack or defense (free targets)
-cruisers existed and were 3/3 could automatically bombard coast
-destroyers completely nullified sub surprise fire (also destroyers were 2/2)

So I assume that is specific enough that you guys know what version I played.  I know that versions exist like pacific and doomsday and what not, but Im pretty sure this wasn’t those, and I know that there are original and revised rules. but these dont’ match the revised rules I saw.  So why so many rule sets? And do you recommend we play on my friends rule set or is there any reason we shouldn’t be able to adopt the rule set I linked by removing the cruisers and adjusting the costs/stats on navy and adding a research board.  Are the piece setups different at beginning? they didn’t seem to be based on some videos I watched here (link removed)

So besides that stuff I’d also like to know where I could play A&A for free online, preferably against other people, but against computers too.  I downloaded this (link removed, is called TripleA) but it doesn’t actually say A&A on there anywhere that I can find, and of all the game options they are for 6 people or more, I would expect only 5 if it was traditional A&A right?

Also when I start playing a game like this my learning curve is usually pretty high, if there are any resources you’re particularly fond of that have to do with A&A strategies, discussions, etc. I’d love to really plow straight through and take in as much as I can right away (as of writing this I have a dedicated firefox window with 13 A&A tabs)

I know this was a long post and I hope I’m not bothering anyone, but I look forward to learning what I can from the community

[Guppers]

Looks like I answered some of my own questions in the time since my last post.  I said something to the effect of not seeing the A&A name on that game I downloaded then I stopped to think what triple A might stand for.  And I figured out how to download any version of the game for it.  Also Im pretty sure I was playing the A&A 1942 revised rule set.

So my new question is why the update from revised to 1942 revised.  Did they feel it was more balanced with no tech and cheaper navy?  Aand would they be considered the standard rules or the original revised rule set. the LHTR 2.0