New Strategy for Allied Win

[MeinHerr]

This should work in most games for a Germany DOW on USSR G T3 or later and a J DOW on W. Allies T2 or later  ( J2G3, J3G3 and J4G4 scenarios)

CAUTION : It will NOT work if G 1 attacks USSR…  and may or may not work with a Japan  DOW on J1 or a G2 DOW on USSR

It consists of the following steps:

1. Make Sure London does not fall to Sealion
2. Protect Egypt
3. Soviet20 first accumulate in Buryatia… then if safe go to Amur… if not… stay put!
4. Play TMG if possible to draw Japan into war … unless Soviet20 stay put in Buryatia.

*** 4) Move 1 Mech and  1 Tank to Sinkiang as soon as possible ( as USSR) &  move the Moscow Mech+ Tank via Novo to reach Buryatia by R3… to join the Soviet20… move 3 planes first to Tinguska… and if Japan DOW W. Allies on J1… then to Schezwan to R2… if NO DOW… then to Amur on R2  ***

IMPT !!!  5) Buy 3 Tanks and 3 Mechs in R1… 3 Planes + Strat Bomber on R2… Buy Soviet STRAT BOMBERS from R3 & R4 !!!  You should have 7 Strat Bombers by USSR4 .

6. ON USSR 5 ( Moscow is going to fall anyways) … build Airbase in Buryatia AND Amur!!! … maybe IC in Korea… should Japan want to take it… USA can use it later.

7. On US5… SZ 6 must be cleared of all Japanese ships!  ( US1 buy = 3 CVs,  US2 buy = 9 Subs,  US3 buy = 3F+4TB, …US4 buy = 6 Strat Bombers  …US 5,6,7 buy = TRs+ Inf)

8. UK planes + Navy should kill off any Japanese ships that may have survived…or moves in there in Non-Com moves…

9. ANZAC Planes if any… do the same. ANZAC only builds TRs from round or 5 when japanese have retreated

10 ) USSR should completely cleanse Japanese shipping R6… with planes and Strat Bombers… if No shipping present… then Strat Bombing should commence.

8. UK Europe should buy whatever it can for Max safety in Egypt IC , USSR tanks+ planes+ Mechs from Iraq go to Egypt

9. Moscow will fall on Germany 6.

10 ) Japan should NOT be able to build a single unit in Mainland Japan from J6 onward

11. ANZAC, UK India  should from T 4, when its looks safe… start building TR only… and follow up the US attack on US turn 8 , 9 or 10.

12. US will use its TR buy on US5, 6 and 7 to take out Japan by US or ANZAC 10. This is a must!!! The Allies must win by end of turn 10.
    If they are lucky… Germany may not get Egypt on Germany 11… but there is no telling.

13. From the time Germany declares war on USSR, all USSR units will head southwards… There should be 1 Russian unit ALWAYS in CAUCUSES, NW. Persia, IRAQ… UK units in TJ.  No gaps…This will delay Germany from getting Egypt till Germany 11 !

14. UK must build in Egypt every turn from IC is put down… Egypt is key between a win or a loss!

Strategy has many holes… and many assumptions… but… J2+G3  and J3+G3 are about 50% of the scenarios… when playing this game.

Essentially Allies trade Moscow for Tokyo.  The R1 turn is to help save Egypt.  R2 - R4 turns help to buy Strat Bombers, using 3 turns of USSR IPCs to deny Japan its IPCs. Add a 5-front war to Japan, and IPC disruption due to TMG and resurgent China, with the UK Builds…  Japan could buckle sooner.

Comments welcome. Please forgive earlier comments about perfect Allied strategy… it was to perk up your interest  :-P

[MeinHerr]

Could be Turn 10… but i think Egypt can hold out for 1 turn.

The 2 Frenchmen  ( Syria and W. Africa) … and the 2 ANZAC Inf  + FR plane… … are invaluable blockers… and should be kept for that purpose.

[MeinHerr]

UK 1 - buy TR for South Africa. UK 2 if NO Sealion… buy 2 Inf+ TR in South Africa… , UK3…onward… buy 2 Inf + Mech … in SA…start the shuttle between South Africa and Egypt.

[oysteilo]

Sounds good Mein Herr. But you need to say a few things about italy. They have role here too. They can potensielly do a lot to get the axis to cairo before round 10. But clearly you will neuter Japan with this

[ItIsILeClerc]

Hello again, MeinHerr.

In contrast to your previous strategy (perk up our interests? lol), I find this one much more interesting.

I can indeed see many holes and assumptions that can backfire, but I find it interesting enough to go try it out myself. Analyze it through and through before speaking out in favor or against it. Some directions seem to cross each other, but I get the main important idea:
Have the USSR make a stand as far east as possible (Buryatia? Amur? wherever they are not wiped out, obviously) and have them (help) killing Japanese ships and RAIDs on Japanese ICs. Have the allied not care about loosing Moscow and trade it for Tokyo, while holding Egypt is standard in KJF’s, but you take it to the next level!  I know that completely neutering Tokyo quickly is also worth it (as opposed to take it, if that is still not possible).

Now for some holes that still -possibly- need to be worked on (I need to see it on the board to be certain, and I will, but this is what comes up from scratch):

• Russian speedbumps of 1 INF each territory preventing Germany from reaching Egypt GE11? Italian can-openers! Each Russian speedbump needs to be stronger than the Italian can-opening strength, which typically is (in a G4 at least) 2INF, 2ART, 2MECH, 2ARM, 3FTR, 2STR. And their STR-builds can be increased, mind you (especially if the USA is absent because of KJF).

• You speak of holding Egypt with the help of Russian FTR, ARM, MECH but I thought they were going to the east to close the deal on Japan? Anyway, I get the picture (I think). I think you mean to say that not all Russian ARM, FTR need to go to the east (since the USSR also buys new ones).

• SZ6 must be cleared of Japanese ships US5. I don’t see the USA do that. Not if it gets into the war US4. Remeber USA has placement-restrictions as long as it’s not at war. Only 3 units can be placed in the Pac every turn. So, excess ships must go into Europe and sail out to the Pac, not being able to reach Japan in time (US5 is perhaps a bit too soon). Russia maybe? I haven’t calculated their number of aircraft, but I doubt they’ll have enough to kill the Japanese armada, that will most certainly stack together on a suspected KJF…

• There’s more but I think this is enough for now. Like I said, I find it interesting enough to go try it out myself and ‘calculate it through’ on the game board. In the near future, not immediately >.<

Still, if this is going to work (and why not, it looks like another, more out of the box, ‘KJF’-variant and KJF is already widely accepted as viable AFAIK), it is another slap in the face of any ‘GIF’ grand strategies, as this clearly is another ‘JF’ strategy.
Maybe Russia can play a similar role in 'GIF’s; buying lots of air to suicide-attack ‘fortress Italy’ with, so that the USA can invade it and take out Rome for Moscow… I just don’t like any game mechanic where Russia looses everything (production + all their territories) but their standing army.

To be continued.

[WILD BILL]

I agree w/ItIsILeClerc, that this is an interesting strat, and definitely in the KJF wheelhouse. The thing that intrigues me is the role of Russia being aggressive, instead of pull back and wait for the massacre. It is a gamey concept though, because it is a compete sell out from history. With that said, it’s not the first sell out that will give you a victory city win, the Japanese are used in a similar fashion all the time. (it’s gamey, but I like it).

Just speculating, but I’m not sure that the speed-bump/Italian can-opener thing is that big of a problem on the path to Egypt. The Idea is to have Egypt stacked, so the Germans will need their inf/art to sack it, and they can only move one space at a time. The earlier path to Moscow would be where you need to watch out for a German mechanized blitz move (opened by the Italians). The Russian capital will be weakly defended, and more likely to fall with a mech/tank blitz, and you don’t want Moscow to fall a round earlier.

It will became apparent very early to the axis (turn 3 at the latest) that the Russians are sacrificing Moscow for the greater good with what is a huge evacuation of the center. Can the Euro axis adjust on the fly and start migrating there slow moving units south? Can the Japanese make a difference other then just playing the victim?

Granted that this is an out of the box version of KJ1, but lets look at some possible counters (that would also be a bit out of the box).

• I’m also doubtful that the US/Russians can take out the Japanese navy by round 6. Like pointed out the US won’t have the units to do it by US6, but maybe factoring in the Russian air strike beforehand. The Japanese would have to help them out though and retreat everything with-in range of the Russian air (would they do that?). The Japanese will see this KJ1 thing coming by J3 at the latest, and can drop a bunch of inf on their capital to hold, or at least make the US build a bigger transport fleet. Plus you need to watch those tricky Japanese, whats to stop them from selling out their side and pull the same crap the Russians did and go straight to the Mid East with their armada and 20 plus air units?  The axis don’t need Tokyo to win. With the US hanging around the Sea of Japan, they would be late for the party. Japan selling out its side to help win on the Euro side isn’t uncommon.

• I agree that Italy could play an important role. With the UK needing to protect London, do they smack the Italian navy UK1? This could be important later w/o US intervention if the axis can use Italian transports to move slower moving German units across the Med (maybe German the IC on S France, or built on Yugo/Greece producing their own transports).

• What about a G3/G4 Axis Neutral Crush once the Germans see the Russians evac the center, and no US on the Euro side, they could get the big three Sweden, Spain, and Turkey. Besides pumping up axis income, Turkey opens up the Mid East oil NO’s. It also gives their mechanized units a quicker path to Egypt from the Germany IC one round faster then going through Russia (tanks built in Germany G6 get to Egypt G10 through Turkey). If Germany built an IC in Romania early on (as they do in many games), then mechanized units built there only take 3 turns to get to Egypt. Romanian transports moving German inf/art through the straight to North Africa (Egypt) in one turn could be a game changer. I realize that the Russians would have a large contingent around the Mid East, and would present a problem, but could they hold this new path, now that the fight most likely moves to Turkey? By then if the Japanese bailed on the Pac they could be threatening Egypt with the Russians fighting in Turkey. Again the Italians could play a big role in the Mid East ground game, especially if they still have a navy. Its all speculation, and timing, but would be fun to play out!

Just some food for thought
WB

[MeinHerr]

@ItIsILeClerc:

Hello again, MeinHerr.

In contrast to your previous strategy (perk up our interests? lol), I find this one much more interesting.

I can indeed see many holes and assumptions that can backfire, but I find it interesting enough to go try it out myself. Analyze it through and through before speaking out in favor or against it. Some directions seem to cross each other, but I get the main important idea:
Have the USSR make a stand as far east as possible (Buryatia? Amur? wherever they are not wiped out, obviously) and have them (help) killing Japanese ships and RAIDs on Japanese ICs. Have the allied not care about loosing Moscow and trade it for Tokyo, while holding Egypt is standard in KJF’s, but you take it to the next level!  I know that completely neutering Tokyo quickly is also worth it (as opposed to take it, if that is still not possible).

Now for some holes that still -possibly- need to be worked on (I need to see it on the board to be certain, and I will, but this is what comes up from scratch):

• Russian speedbumps of 1 INF each territory preventing Germany from reaching Egypt GE11? Italian can-openers! Each Russian speedbump needs to be stronger than the Italian can-opening strength, which typically is (in a G4 at least) 2INF, 2ART, 2MECH, 2ARM, 3FTR, 2STR. And their STR-builds can be increased, mind you (especially if the USA is absent because of KJF).

• You speak of holding Egypt with the help of Russian FTR, ARM, MECH but I thought they were going to the east to close the deal on Japan? Anyway, I get the picture (I think). I think you mean to say that not all Russian ARM, FTR need to go to the east (since the USSR also buys new ones).

• SZ6 must be cleared of Japanese ships US5. I don’t see the USA do that. Not if it gets into the war US4. Remeber USA has placement-restrictions as long as it’s not at war. Only 3 units can be placed in the Pac every turn. So, excess ships must go into Europe and sail out to the Pac, not being able to reach Japan in time (US5 is perhaps a bit too soon). Russia maybe? I haven’t calculated their number of aircraft, but I doubt they’ll have enough to kill the Japanese armada, that will most certainly stack together on a suspected KJF…

• There’s more but I think this is enough for now. Like I said, I find it interesting enough to go try it out myself and ‘calculate it through’ on the game board. In the near future, not immediately >.<

Still, if this is going to work (and why not, it looks like another, more out of the box, ‘KJF’-variant and KJF is already widely accepted as viable AFAIK), it is another slap in the face of any ‘GIF’ grand strategies, as this clearly is another ‘JF’ strategy.
Maybe Russia can play a similar role in 'GIF’s; buying lots of air to suicide-attack ‘fortress Italy’ with, so that the USA can invade it and take out Rome for Moscow… I just don’t like any game mechanic where Russia looses everything (production + all their territories) but their standing army.

To be continued.

Thank you for your comments.

Now… here i kept to the simplest assumptions:

1. Japan doe NOT stack up Manchuria/Korea… but rather does its kill China …set up to do a J2 or a J3 strike
2. That they play the usual 1-2 TRs unloaded in SZ 20, 19 or 36…
   ie: Japan plays the “normal” game

The deal is this… the EARLIER Japan goes to war… the FASTER it will fall

The LATER Germany goes to war… the FASTER Japan will fall

If Japan goes to war on J2… the US Sub buy on J2 will be in Hawaii and Aleutians…on J3…  Will Be taking out the Blockers on J4… in Combo with pre-existing Air … And 4 CC+BB fleet moves to Midway

It will be the same… a turn delayed for J3

TMG if played successfully…. will cost Japan  - 1 Round TEMPO…  again… its a Major Variable… but its importance CANNOT BE UNDERSTATED in this plan… for not just what i reason before…  but also because it costs Japan the 1 - round $$ DEI

USSR IS THE MOST UNDERESTIMATED OFFENSIVE POWER ON THIS BOARD  .  Everyone playing USSR , usually * Rightly* plays DEFENSE…  but… again… with TMG and a diffferent playbook… this could be different.

LASTLY……  the 1ST round of USSR Buy can still be the conventional… esp. if Germany bought a big NAVY.    That may keep Germany guessing as to what USSR plans to do… reason… the planes in TINGUSKA…  and the Mech and Tank to SIKIANG… CAN BE RECALLED…!    ie:  You Can “FAKE” this play… with a conventional USSR buy on turn1

IF GERMANY GOES to SEALION…  then… Allies can choose…  It IS PROBABLY STILL EASIER TO KILL JAPAN… than Germany…  unless Sealion becomes a disaster!  Because after SeaLion… Germany takes at least 1 turn to recover before it can start pushing East!!!

SO…. all in all…  SSB-TMG-MIFF_ KJF  ( Soviet Strat Bomber - The Mahatma Gambit- Mahatma’s Imperial Fleet Freeze- Kill Japan First )  is effective  especially if :

1. Germany buys all Navy on G1  ( esp without TRs)
2. Germany tries SeaLion on G3/G4
3. Germany buys a Mix of CV + Minor IC on G1

Thanks again!

PS: If Germany does not do Sealion buy on G2… then… UK 2 - Major IC in Egypt… and it has to buy 1 F in UK…each turn… do not buy a big navy… just buy Inf in UK… and F  that fly to Egypt Via Gibralter.  Secure Gibralter.

PSS:  UK India - can do a Shuttle to Egypt at least for 3 turns… once Japan has receded… bringing Egypt strength to 2 Inf ( from SA) + 2 Inf ( from India ) + 3 Inf produced there… + 1 F each turn ( 8 units a turn) from UK 4… As long as Italy does not take it I2… Egypt cannot be taken  unless Germany gambles on G5/6 and starts building TRs in S. France… and IC in Yugo… but even then… the investment needed to first, produce the TRs …and then to successfully attack Egypt… will take it till G11… IMHO

[MeinHerr]

One more thing… lest i forget to mention…

If G2 - NO DOW on USSR…  just buy 3 SSBs  ( Soviet Strat Bombers ) on R2 …  Fly all 3 to Buryatia or India… if India is safe… on R3…  From R4 on…  Any Japanese TRs - NOT adequately protected - will die.  Esp. If the SSB are kept bunched together!!!

UK Strat Bomber does the same!  It has to come to W. India by UK3 - if safe…and by UK4  harry the Japanese

The SSB that reach far east either the R2 or 3 buy… can pick off J- TRs too… they have the range… and can land in Interior China…

From R4-5… there are enough SSB… that unless there is at least 1 Loaded CV PER  TR… the TR can die.  You want Japan… NOT to be able to take the INF back to Japan!!!  esp If Japan HAS STACKED Manchuria and Korea !!!

[MeinHerr]

@WILD:

I agree w/ItIsILeClerc, that this is an interesting strat, and definitely in the KJF wheelhouse. The thing that intrigues me is the role of Russia being aggressive, instead of pull back and wait for the massacre. It is a gamey concept though, because it is a compete sell out from history. With that said, it’s not the first sell out that will give you a victory city win, the Japanese are used in a similar fashion all the time. (it’s gamey, but I like it).

Just speculating, but I’m not sure that the speed-bump/Italian can-opener thing is that big of a problem on the path to Egypt. The Idea is to have Egypt stacked, so the Germans will need their inf/art to sack it, and they can only move one space at a time. The earlier path to Moscow would be where you need to watch out for a German mechanized blitz move (opened by the Italians). The Russian capital will be weakly defended, and more likely to fall with a mech/tank blitz, and you don’t want Moscow to fall a round earlier.

It will became apparent very early to the axis (turn 3 at the latest) that the Russians are sacrificing Moscow for the greater good with what is a huge evacuation of the center. Can the Euro axis adjust on the fly and start migrating there slow moving units south? Can the Japanese make a difference other then just playing the victim?

Granted that this is an out of the box version of KJ1, but lets look at some possible counters (that would also be a bit out of the box).

• I’m also doubtful that the US/Russians can take out the Japanese navy by round 6. Like pointed out the US won’t have the units to do it by US6, but maybe factoring in the Russian air strike beforehand. The Japanese would have to help them out though and retreat everything with-in range of the Russian air (would they do that?). The Japanese will see this KJ1 thing coming by J3 at the latest, and can drop a bunch of inf on their capital to hold, or at least make the US build a bigger transport fleet. Plus you need to watch those tricky Japanese, whats to stop them from selling out their side and pull the same crap the Russians did and go straight to the Mid East with their armada and 20 plus air units?  The axis don’t need Tokyo to win. With the US hanging around the Sea of Japan, they would be late for the party. Japan selling out its side to help win on the Euro side isn’t uncommon.

• I agree that Italy could play an important role. With the UK needing to protect London, do they smack the Italian navy UK1? This could be important later w/o US intervention if the axis can use Italian transports to move slower moving German units across the Med (maybe German the IC on S France, or built on Yugo/Greece producing their own transports).

• What about a G3/G4 Axis Neutral Crush once the Germans see the Russians evac the center, and no US on the Euro side, they could get the big three Sweden, Spain, and Turkey. Besides pumping up axis income, Turkey opens up the Mid East oil NO’s. It also gives their mechanized units a quicker path to Egypt from the Germany IC one round faster then going through Russia (tanks built in Germany G6 get to Egypt G10 through Turkey). If Germany built an IC in Romania early on (as they do in many games), then mechanized units built there only take 3 turns to get to Egypt. Romanian transports moving German inf/art through the straight to North Africa (Egypt) in one turn could be a game changer. I realize that the Russians would have a large contingent around the Mid East, and would present a problem, but could they hold this new path, now that the fight most likely moves to Turkey? Again the Italians could play a big role in the Mid East ground game, especially if they still have a navy.

Just some food for thought
WB

Hi WB…

Thanks for your analysis.

The last point reg. the G3/G4 Neutral crush  is important only for 2 things :  Will it give Germans a "Short cut " to Egypt… and will the extra $ be enough to help it to get Egypt before Allies can get Tokyo.

Everything depends on Japan as to when they DOW on W. Allies… accordingly their navy gets wiped out.  US can modify its buys if there is No J2 or J3 DOW…  but will write more about that later… unless you or someone else is interested in pursuing this angle.

Again… R1 buy can be “cloaked”… so as not to offer Axis concrete ideas about Allied kill strategy.  R1  is after G1.  If G1 Buy is Navy… this automatically becomes viable.

[MeinHerr]

Finally… One last point…

The USSR1  Air move and the Sikiang move… helps to defuse J1 DOW - Cow’s strategy.  At least it provides India a chance to survive the J3 crush possibility

The 3 planes can make it to India by R3  … and the Mech+ Tank  can get to Burma R3 and then to India by R4

[WILD BILL]

@MeinHerr:

Finally… One last point…

The USSR1  Air move and the Sikiang move… helps to defuse J1 DOW - Cow’s strategy.  At least it provides India a chance to survive the J3 crush possibility

The 3 planes can make it to India by R3  … and the Mech+ Tank   can get to Burma R3 and then to India by R4

It is normal for the US to spend heavy Pac side from the beginning (have more freedom of movement). I like the fact that your Russians are buying some air power and mobile units, and moving them east and south. The Russians generally get into the ready position to get to Iraq, and I like to show a little Russian muscle in China vs Japan (that can be recalled if needed). On R2 when they keep all the Siberians to the east (to slow to come back), continue to move mechanized units in that direction, and start buying S bmrs the gig is up even w/o considering the USA has also spent Pac (Japan knows it’s in trouble J2, and Tojo will send a telegram to Hitler LOL). I get the fact that you are sacrificing Moscow (Leningrad, and Stalingrad as well) for Tokyo, but the axis don’t need Tokyo to win. The Japanese need to either drag it out keeping the US tied up, or sell out their side of the board (as the Russians did) to win the game in Egypt.

[MeinHerr]

@WILD:

@MeinHerr:

Finally… One last point…

The USSR1  Air move and the Sikiang move… helps to defuse J1 DOW - Cow’s strategy.  At least it provides India a chance to survive the J3 crush possibility

The 3 planes can make it to India by R3  … and the Mech+ Tank   can get to Burma R3 and then to India by R4

It is normal for the US to spend heavy Pac side from the beginning (have more freedom of movement). I like the fact that your Russians are buying some air power and mobile units, and moving them east and south. The Russians generally get into the ready position to get to Iraq, and I like to show a little Russian muscle in China vs Japan (that can be recalled if needed). On R2 when they keep all the Siberians to the east (to slow to come back), continue to move mechanized units in that direction, and start buying S bmrs the gig is up even w/o considering the USA has also spent Pac (Japan knows it’s in trouble J2, and Tojo will send a telegram to Hitler LOL). I get the fact that you are sacrificing Moscow (Leningrad, and Stalingrad as well) for Tokyo, but the axis don’t need Tokyo to win. The Japanese need to either drag it out, or sell out their side of the board (as the Russians did) to win the game in Egypt.

Well, yes Gig is up.  But then if there is no G2 DOW on USSR… it does not matter!

There are blocker units in the Indian Ocean that can slow the IJF !!!

Japan on J2 has to make a crucial decision!!! 
If it does not DOW on W. Allies on  J2… repeat NOT… and TMG is played… then… FORSAKING the DEI… it will go to India?!! The R2 buy will be in India on R3…all those TRs need protection!
on J3 it can go to Malaya+Borneo…  on J4 it can go to SZ 38 ( blocked by French DD ( Burma) and SZ 41 blocked by ANZAC DD( Sumatra ) …
on J4 the fleet reaches India… It is too late.  India would have turtled.  USSR has option of bringing its 3 planes into India… with its T+ M at that point… NOT to mention the 3 SSB from R2 buy! I highly doubt Japan can take India at that point.
on UK 4, Egypt fleet starts its blocking maneuvers . CRU to 80, DD to 79 … J5 is stuck there… 
By this time Egypt will be impervious to the 6 planes Japan brings on 3 CVs… Japan cannot strike Egypt… till J7  … let alone take it.

Remember the collapsing USSR land army is headed South!  There are USSR SSB in India!  India is still making Mechs+ tanks…  SO Japan can forget taking and holding any Middle East land , because those troops will get killed… Then the Japanese Airforce cannot land… takes IJAF out of the picture!

By J4/5… Japan will have to worry about getting home!  And it may get wiped out in between… or Not make it on time

If Japan DOW’s in J2… it is even worse!  US builds as stated before… and can move…out!  So on J3 , 4, 5 … what is Japan building?  How long will it take US to kill this. Can it happen  before ANZAC 10?

[MeinHerr]

I call this strategy SovietMAhatmaKillJapanFirst  aka –-  SMAKJF !

There is one change i would like to make… on R1… the Tac Bomber from Russia should go to Sikiang.  The other 2 planes to Tinguska.

Once G1 buy is Navy, and Allies decide SMAKJF is the way to go…  it is almost mandatory for this strategy… that… The Mahatma Gambit be played on UK1

If Japan does NOT take the gambit… on J2… but suppose Japan plays this:

J2 Buy = 1 Airbase in Kwangsi.  has 15 planes there…
J2 move is the entire combined Fleet in Peace to SZ 38  or SZ41  ( This means 2 or 3 Loaded TR+ 3 loaded CV+ 2 BB+ 2 CV+ whatever else )
J2 Combat takes Yunnan with either Tank+ Inf ( from Unloaded TR) …+ say 3 Inf+Art - from Hunan ( suppose they all survived on J1) … 3+10 = 13 DFP + 6 pieces

Everything then depends on China then… on China 2… they should be able to clear it.  If they cannot , and just 1 tank remains… then… the Russians should be able to clear it with …Mech+ Tank+ TB… and TB should land in India!

And UK-India  does NOT have to declare… and it can turtle.

UK BB from Hong Kong can decide to go to SZ 46 ( New Guinea) …or if there are 2-3 TR buys on J2… then they get frozen with a J3 DOW… which is very likely.

Now continuing… if on J3… it does DOW… tries to take India… No Shore Bombardment… as French DD stops that…  it will be 8 planes  ( 2 SB + 3 TB + 3 F) + 6 land units ( max) … against 3AAA+ 2 TB+ 3 ANZAC F+ 2 UK F + Lots of Inf !

India should be safe.

…  The US buys then have to be calculated accordingly from US 2 onward…
( US2 - 9 Subs. 3 each in ATL, GOM, PAC… there will be 5 Subs in Pacific… the 6 from Atlantic will get to Hawaii by US5)
(US3 - 2 TB+ 3 F)
( US4 - 6 SBs) … and so on and so forth.

[WILD BILL]

Couple things, if the Germans don’t DOW against Russia until G3, then those Russian ground units can’t be in India R3. They can’t move through the Persia’s, and I don’t believe they can fly over the Persia’s either.

I would need clarification if the Russian planes stationed in Sikang flying the 4 spaces over the Burma road would be able to land in India (all on the Pac map). If at war w/Japan the Russians can move units into China because the Japanese are also at war w/China, but I’m not sure they are allowed to move any units into India if the UK is still not at war w/Japan.

[ItIsILeClerc]

Like I said: I like the ‘unusual’ take on the otherwise usual KJF.
Using the Soviets offensively by just saying “crap, if it’s going to be THAT difficult to hold Moscow then u can have it for free but before I go I do some damage slap axis face”, would also be a nice newcomer (for me at least). If it works.

I must say Wild Bill’s comment about Japan selling their side out had me lol about it  :-D. That would be a volatile, wild, out-of-the-box game! Both sides have a Major Power selling themselves out. Muahahahaha! I think Japan needs to be careful with the timing of such a move, but this can be a potential wrench in the gear for the allies if timed well. Imagine Germany attacking Egypt, only barely loosing because of all the Russians there and then Japan finishing Egypt off while also blocking off the allies from retaking it for 1 turn… axis win in Europe. That would be a fun scenario!

And -another good point from WB: Italy. Italy is the wildcard here. And Italy will be strong if the USA is unavailable to tango with.

Russia is indeed also limited to move in areas of allied partners they share a ‘wartreaty’ with. So indeed if Germany has not yet DOWed Russia, Russia cannot move through the ME (or fly air into Egypt). One of the reasons why Germany sometimes goes G4 -if Russian interference would be the only thing stopping Italy (or Germany itself) from taking Egypt.

lastly, if Russia will sell itself out, Germany and Italy can have larger fleets in the med (and still easily overrun Moscow), to ferry >10 cheap land units into Africa/ME per turn, via this sea route alone already.

Interesting. I’ll have fun trying this out, ‘JF’ wheel or not  :-D.

[MeinHerr]

@WILD:

Couple things, if the Germans don’t DOW against Russia until G3, then those Russian ground units can’t be in India R3. They can’t move through the Persia’s, and I don’t believe they can fly over the Persia’s either.

I would need clarification if the Russian planes stationed in Sikang flying the 4 spaces over the Burma road would be able to land in India (all on the Pac map). If at war w/Japan the Russians can move units into China because the Japanese are also at war w/China, but I’m not sure they are allowed to move any units into India if the UK is still not at war w/Japan.

Thanks for clarification.

Then would it be better to send T+M in Moscow to Khazak…, T+ Mech in Stalingrad to Sikiang… and TB Planes to Sikiang… in effort to kill J1 ?

Other 2 planes go to Tinguska to give the Soviet20 support for move into Amur ( if safe) on R2 .

To me… G1 Navy build and J1 strike combo has always been the most dangerous combo so far… (since i had this planned) .  The G4J4 is the most rosy scenario for SMAKJF  :evil:

Threat of SMAKJF  KEEPS Axis FROM THIS COMBO.

And the “prelude”… moving the 1 planes and 2 Tanks+ 2 Mechs east… “defuses” J1 threat considerably… as even if Japan builds the Airbase in Kwangsi…, it cannot land in Yunnan… as long as the Soviets back up the Chinese ability to re-take it on R2 and R3… the most crucial turns.

[MeinHerr]

@ItIsILeClerc:

Like I said: I like the ‘unusual’ take on the otherwise usual KJF.
Using the Soviets offensively by just saying “crap, if it’s going to be THAT difficult to hold Moscow then u can have it for free but before I go I do some damage slap axis face”, would also be a nice newcomer (for me at least). If it works.

I must say Wild Bill’s comment about Japan selling their side out had me lol about it  :-D. That would be a volatile, wild, out-of-the-box game! Both sides have a Major Power selling themselves out. Muahahahaha! I think Japan needs to be careful with the timing of such a move, but this can be a potential wrench in the gear for the allies if timed well. Imagine Germany attacking Egypt, only barely loosing because of all the Russians there and then Japan finishing Egypt off while also blocking off the allies from retaking it for 1 turn… axis win in Europe. That would be a fun scenario!

And -another good point from WB: Italy. Italy is the wildcard here. And Italy will be strong if the USA is unavailable to tango with.

Russia is indeed also limited to move in areas of allied partners they share a ‘wartreaty’ with. So indeed if Germany has not yet DOWed Russia, Russia cannot move through the ME (or fly air into Egypt). One of the reasons why Germany sometimes goes G4 -if Russian interference would be the only thing stopping Italy (or Germany itself) from taking Egypt.

lastly, if Russia will sell itself out, Germany and Italy can have larger fleets in the med (and still easily overrun Moscow), to ferry >10 cheap land units into Africa/ME per turn, via this sea route alone already.

Interesting. I’ll have fun trying this out, ‘JF’ wheel or not  :-D.

IF UK  can put in an IC in Egypt on UK 2  , and hold it past I2 , the transport Shuttle from South Africa, + 2 planes produced in Egypt every turn + RAF already there should be enough to take out the Italian invasion… and then the Fleet if not well defended.  The same reason… Japan is very unlikely to ever take Egypt .  The IJF will be “conveniently” on SZ 80 on J5 turn… when 6 SSB+ TB… if need be… hit them… then if they persist… they get hit by RAF from Egypt,  and if they retreat, planes from India…  The IJF moving past SZ 41 on or after J3 means it is useless for defense of the home Islands… because the will not be back in time.

Italy is a different matter… and iam still figuring them out…  :wink:

[robbie358]

I’m so glad you found A&A.org, so I don’t have to shoot down your insane strategies in person!  Now you can bounce ideas off everyone else.

I’d like to see the Allies go all out on a KJF, but again it all depends on what the Axis does.

[MeinHerr]

So… you are “The Robbie”  :wink: of the Bielenfeld maneuver fame !

Nice to meet you on this forum !!!  :evil:

Honestly, ever since our game after Txgiving… i have been OCD about this strategy ( cuz i could not play the whole thing - just the TMG-MIFF) … did not have the guts to propose it in person for fear of being banned from future games…  for being irrational… :-o

Today is the first day iam coming back to my “Normal ground/steady state”

At least got it off my chest.

Your comments welcome.

BTW, the 3 ART in UKR with the ART from W. Ukr with Inf and the 6 ART in Moscow  will head South with Inf to “Seal” the Caucuses… in event of G3 /G4 attack on Turkey.

All the Leningrad Inf+ Baltic+ Arch will start moving south from R1 to Belarus… and then R2 to Bryansk … R3 Rostov

The Karelia+ Vyborg Inf will hold off the delaying action in the North.

R1 buy and moves can always be reversed should Germany try something else. USSR can still switch to “conventional” game on R2…

Suggestions plz., worried about G1 complex in Romania…as WB said… it might void this strategy.

[pokemaniac]

My initial thought, which hasn’t been addressed at all, is: how is the UK gonna protect London? In your strategy they are putting 19 IPCs minimum a turn into Egypt. What does that leave for London?

On R1, Germany is gonna see a Russia that is going aggressive in the East, but maybe ignores it. After R2 it is very obvious to Germany that Russia is selling out Moscow to try and crush Japan. At this point (after a G2 build which was probably all German fast), Germany might need one more turns worth of fast units for Russia, but that’s it. Thus starting with the G4 purchase, German can be putting at least half of its income at London. With a strong Italy also pressuring Egypt, I just don’t see how London is holding both VCs.

Even if Germany is still sending units east, they can use their air-force to max bomb the London factory while subs convoy. I don’t see how the UK can possibly hold out against this onslaught. I haven’t played it out, but I’m really having a hard time imagining the UK (which is making less than 30 because of convoys and losing its NO) being able to hold out against half of Germany (turn 5 income somewhere around 60, but that will jump to 90 very quickly once it takes Moscow and the wealthy Russian territories) and all of Italy (making at least 25 since there are no ships in the med and they should have Gibraltar). Egypt probably falls before any Russians even get there, or if it doesn’t then London will fall sometime around turn 7.

Japan’s air-force and fleet aren’t something that is going to go down easily either.

Fun gambit strategy that would possibly work against an axis player that always goes G4/J4 and won’t be able to adapt effectively, but against a good axis player who will recognize that Germany can throw a lot of its resources against the UK I just don’t see it ever working.