Is there a perfect strategy?

[DiscoKnekt]

If we asume that all dice rolls are rolled according to the statistics, then is there or is there not a perfect strategy for Axis to win that cant be interupted by the Allies? If both sides play the theoretical best way all the time, which side need the luck with dices to win?

[Shin-Ji]

Actually, there seems a growing consensus that sending German bombers over to Japan might be that perfect strategy.  It’s never quite worked for me, but then I’m far from a perfect player.

[TheMethuselah]

My gut says that perfectly average results would heavily favor the axis, regardless of which strategy they took. However, I play pure luck exclusively, so I have no proof to back that up.

[Jennifer]

So what is the solution to the German Bombers in SE Asia strategy?

Thinking a combination of American SBRs on Germany coupled with an aggressive Russia with British invasions of North Africa (to prevent Italian NOs and later to reinforce India.)

[Captain-Mitchell 0]

If there is any perfect strategy in this game,then it will become meaningless.

[Jennifer]

Well, at least if it becomes meaningless we know Larry Harris will just produce a new game to absorb our money with. :P  After all, 2nd Edition Classic was completely meaningless and then we got Revised, Revised became a game of chance (not strategy) and so we got Anniversary and 1940… hehe.

Anyway, I am thinking with no Strats for Germany there’s less threat in the Med from the Luftwaffe (or less in the N. Atlantic) so the Anglo-Ruskies could play a game of extreme aggressiveness while the US plays a game of bombing the Germans into the stone age and trying to prevent that VC win in the Pacific.

[theROCmonster]

@Cmdr:

Well, at least if it becomes meaningless we know Larry Harris will just produce a new game to absorb our money with. :P  After all, 2nd Edition Classic was completely meaningless and then we got Revised, Revised became a game of chance (not strategy) and so we got Anniversary and 1940… hehe.

Anyway, I am thinking with no Strats for Germany there’s less threat in the Med from the Luftwaffe (or less in the N. Atlantic) so the Anglo-Ruskies could play a game of extreme aggressiveness while the US plays a game of bombing the Germans into the stone age and trying to prevent that VC win in the Pacific.

Revised had a lot of strategy in it. Just because you liked doing the Russian triple attack, which is very risky, doesn’t mean that revised lacked strategy.

I think Germany only needs to send 3 bombers to the pacific to can open for Japan, so he will still have all his fighters, tacs, and the rest of his bombers left at home.

[cyanight]

I tied that once but kept forgetting about my bombers in SE Asia. The can openers where there just never plugged in, hehe.

[ItIsILeClerc]

I’m not claiming to have encountered a perfect strategy, but I’m still trying to find a decent allied answer to an axis economic domination strategy.

IMHO this is a real nutcracker and if I can’t find it for the allies I sure will post it on the forum someday. See what others think of it. If no1 would find an allied answer to it, then we can consider it a perfect strategy. Axis strategy, of course.

Note: AFAIK this axis strategy can be dealt with using a certain allied bid (one that aims to keep both Gibraltar and Egypt in Allied hands), but without any bid I’m not so sure. Yet.

[Jennifer]

ROC, I was way more ballsy than just a Russian Triple!  After all the allies had gone either the Allies were certain to win or they were certain to lose, there was no in the middle. hehe.  That’s what made it fun!

Yes, not remembering you have can openers is a risk, but let’s assume Germany remembers to suicide bombers like kamikaze fighters against allied Destroyers (or maybe people would picket with cruisers? to increase the risk of the bombers, just have to drop 3 of them into the ocean and the risk is gone.)  What’s the efficient counter?

[theROCmonster]

I’ve having a hard time as the allies also Clerc. US is the key, but I just can’t figure out how best to allocate his resources. Very frustrating  :?

[ItIsILeClerc]

@theROCmonster:

I’ve having a hard time as the allies also Clerc. US is the key, but I just can’t figure out how best to allocate his resources. Very frustrating  :?

If it helps (and you do not know it already ;-)):  it doesn’t seem to work to spread income evenly between both theatres.

Spending most (if not all) US income on 1 map the first couple of turns and then switch to the other map looks like the way to go.
Aim early US income:
1. On a J1DOW -> Japan (no choice, an axis 6VC must be prevented).
2. On a J2/3/4DOW -> Japan OR Italy/Germany.

When spending on the European map, think transports + adequate escorts. A Large transport force with Invaders roaming freely in Europe is an axis nightmare. This force should have enough escorts to protect it from the axis air and naval forces. Particularly useful are Carriers + FTR with the odd DD, since the FTR not only protect the fleet, they also project attack factors inland.
In the Pacific the first priority seems to be to win the arms race with Japan, before any new transports (+load) can be built. I think people prefer ANZAC to pick up this job of transporting marines.

So, there seems to be flexibility with a J2/3/4DOW, although recent experience with a J4G4DOW has me guessing again. Germany can build such an impenetrable ‘Fortress Europe’ that Early US income seems to be more effective against Japan. However, since the allies can only guess as to when the axis will DOW, I’m thinking the USA should Always go ‘Japan First’ even if there is no J1DOW, just to be sure.

But that is something I am still trying to figure out. And frankly speaking, if ‘Japan First’ turns out to be the only way to go for the allies, I think I 'll have to say goodbye to playing A&A. I can take a lot of historical incorrectness for balance reasons but not a failure to allow at least such a basic allied grand strategy… But yeah, still figuring this one out. To Be Continued ;-).

[ghr2]

I do know that some people have had 25+ bids due to strong axis play.

[theROCmonster]

@ghr2:

I do know that some people have had 25+ bids due to strong axis play.

I can see the need. The bid seems extreme at first, but after seeing how badly my axis are beating my allies makes me believe it.

[TheMethuselah]

If you get a bid at 25+, how would you spend it?

[theROCmonster]

I just tested bidding UK a carrier for SZ91, sub for SZ110, and an infantry for Alexandria.

The point of this bid is to force him to send his battleship to kill 110 and take away the strafe of 111. Also he will be forced to send both subs to 110 and 111 leaving 106 with only 1 sub against it. On UK’s first turn you stack SZ 92 and Algeria.

Not sure how this would play out, but it would be nice to have a chance at maintaining a large fleet in the med.

[barney]

“But that is something I am still trying to figure out. And frankly speaking, if ‘Japan First’ turns out to be the only way to go for the allies, I think I 'll have to say goodbye to playing A&A. I can take a lot of historical incorrectness for balance reasons but not a failure to allow at least such a basic allied grand strategy… But yeah, still figuring this one out. To Be Continued wink.”

No reason to say goodbye ItsIleclerc. You’ll just have to help find a solution:)

[ItIsILeClerc]

@barney:

“But that is something I am still trying to figure out. And frankly speaking, if ‘Japan First’ turns out to be the only way to go for the allies, I think I 'll have to say goodbye to playing A&A. I can take a lot of historical incorrectness for balance reasons but not a failure to allow at least such a basic allied grand strategy… But yeah, still figuring this one out. To Be Continued wink.”

No reason to say goodbye ItsIleclerc. You’ll just have to help find a solution:)

Thanks Barney, I’m working on that  :-D.
If I can’t find a solution in Europe (call it a ‘Europe First’ strategy if you like) for that G4J4DOW I’ll call in the help of the Forum. Heck I might do that anyway!

But what if no1 finds a solution? Then we would be stuck doing ‘Japan First’ because the game fails to allow ‘Europe First’.
I feel in this situation the developers should recognize the need for a bid (or change the setup a little) or I suspect this JPF is intentional and personally I don’t like that. In a WWII grand strategy game, the allies should at least be able to choose who they go after first. That’s just such a basic part of allied strategy, I can’t overlook it.

I guess I could also make playing with a bid the standard in my house and call the OOB rules ‘imbalanced’, like I have seen many others do already. Both on- and offline.

Truth be told, I have never played out a G4J4DOW all the way to the end since it gets into turn 13 with the axis making ~50IPCs > the allies and axis TUV >= allied TUV and after 13 turns of play both sides usually are weary enough to agree on a draw because in spite of the rather large axis economic advantage, military positioning may (or may not) present opportunities for the allies. But like I said, that’s what I hope to find out coming months.

@TheMethuselah:

If you get a bid at 25+, how would you spend it?

I think a bid of 13 is required (in the med) to allow the UK to keep Egypt and Gibraltar, which they need very badly for the allies to stand a chance. I tend to place a second FTR in Malta (helps with ‘Taranto’ and after that, also with the defense of both Egypt and Gibraltar) and an INF in Gibraltar or Alexandria/Egypt.

[ghr2]

@TheMethuselah:

If you get a bid at 25+, how would you spend it?

What I think they do a weird thing where you spend like 5 for a russian strat.  They also get an anzac inf in NG.  The rest is a combination of standard med units and russian ground.  Sometimes they add a chinese inf to yunnan and maybe another russian fighter to make near impossible for Japan to take.

[ColonelCarter]

@TheMethuselah:

If you get a bid at 25+, how would you spend it?

Assuming there were no other restrictions with it, for 25 I would probably do art Anglo-Egyptian Sudan, art Alexandria, tank Egypt, fig Scotland, and the extra IPC to Britain. The ground in Africa lets you attack Ethiopia with Sudan and the SZ98 tport and Tobruk with everything else, SZ96 with the standard 91 CA + Gib fig, and then all of SZ98 + fig + bmb from UK to do Taranto. The fig in Scotland will probably save one of SZ 110/111, or get a favorable scramble if G still decides to do both, and leave Britain the normal number of figs after one flies to the med. Also, the extra IPC gives UK the option of 2 fig 3 inf buy for a safer aggressive Sealion defense.