AARHE: Phase 3: Naval combat system

[Imperious Leader]

This section pertains to how to address any changes to how we conduct naval combat.

[tekkyy]

As with land combat, if planes can’t be shot down except by AA on crusier/carrier then I we should make planes need to land every few cycles.

And then as with land combat, planes attack in opening-fire.

Should retreats in naval combat be easier or harder then land combat?

[Imperious Leader]

Im not sure at this point im still working on other sections…

[tekkyy]

Yeah this is phase 3 but I’ll just add it here before I forget.

Imperious Leader is keen on fixing the submarine warfare and sugguested we have a separate submarine combat and surface combat.

Although dissimilar to the “air combat” (dogfighting in the air) and “land combat” (ground forces and bombing) portions for land combat…
…in the sense that submarines don’t kill each other.

[Imperious Leader]

Subs cant kill each other… impossible!  sub interactions have to be kept seperate so we can solve the classic a/a pacific “sub stall debate” that much easier

[tekkyy]

It’ll be great. Another step for mankind um AA players.

[tekkyy]

What are we leaning towards the detection system?

Should chance of detection of enemy sub depend on
*enemy SS to friendly DD ratio…
*friendly DD numbers up to a saturating point…
*do SS detect each other?

[Imperious Leader]

Submarine Combat:
This form of combat is always performed separately from normal naval combat. During the active players phase, submarines can make attacks on naval units or economic attacks on an enemy’s convoy zone. When used against naval units they can be moved or simply activated from an enemy occupied sea zone and select a target of their choosing roll and hitting on a four or less. Attacking subs have a 1st shot “surprise attack” against naval units, unless defending Cruisers or Destroyers are present. Losses are applied immediately; so lost units do not get to shoot back. If any ships remain then a search roll may then be performed. Exception: After the first combat round each Cruiser or Destroyer class naval unit can “screen” out one ship of their choosing at a 1/1 basis so that the submarine hit goes against these units instead. Only when the “screening” ship(s) are sunk can the “protected” ship be targeted. Every defending Cruiser or Destroyer class unit is then assigned two rolls to perform a search of each submarine that is attacking with success on any roll of four or less. If they fail to locate the submarine, then the sub can then end combat and remain in the sea zone, or it can conduct another round of combat. If it tries to make a second attack the defending ships have an automatic search success (no roll is needed). They can all defend against the submarine(s) hitting at a two or less. This is known as Anti- Submarine Warfare (ASW). No other types of ships can perform ASW rolls. Land or Carrier based planes cannot be involved in Anti- Submarine Warfare (ASW) except USA and UK starting from turn 4.
  Each roll is now done separately until the submarine is sighted. All additional rolls left for these ships can then go against attacking the submarines again hitting on a two or less. On turn 6 the USA and UK player has sufficient sonar capability, which modifies a hit to any roll of three or less. If the submarine is not sighted then another round of combat occurs until either all ships are sunk or either side withdraws from further combat (subs can remain in the sea zone while either side can also retreat to another sea zones).

When the active player decides he wants to attack enemy submarines with ASW warfare, each Cruiser or Destroyer class ship  can each participate in a similar manner to above. No other types of ships can perform ASW. If these units fail to find the submarine, it simply remains in the sea zone. Each roll is now done separately until each submarine is sighted. Each plane then has two rolls each with a successful search result of four or less (three or less on turn 6). Additional rolls are then applied as hits. Note: Bombers cannot actually attack enemy submarines but may be allocated to search for them.

[tekkyy]

The technology side of things, we don’t want static milestones in time where planes can start attacking/searching for subs do we?

Should this aspect be covered in technology?

[tekkyy]

By “sub hits cannot be taken by subs nor planes” I am not proposing changes to planes killing subs for phase1.
I am just saying when a sub score a hit, the enemy cannot use a plane or a sub to take it.

[Imperious Leader]

Subs were taken out by planes latter in the war when ASW techniques were perfected.

I think we should deal with all naval combat in a single catagory, because to include just a tiny section consisting of “subs cant attack subs” has little context if not applied with other more substantial rules dealing with ASW and a “system” of making theese interactions more historically represented.

[tekkyy]

So we won’t have it for phase1?

I am thinking “subs can’t hit subs” is quite meaningful on its own. Just like “subs can’t hit planes” in OOB or was that LHTR…

[Imperious Leader]

OK we can add it but it really should be combined with a more substantial rules covering the entire relationship/interactions… but ok ill support its addition to phase one. can somebody post the entire phase one with this and the NA/ NA tactics list?

[tekkyy]

Horray!  :-D (for sub-to-sub rule)

As for compiling…let do a bit each. And post in the corresponding forum.

[tekkyy]

Final draft for phase 1

(Don’t really know which part of your Submarine warfare is for phase 1 but anyway this is an attempted summary to your essay  :-D)

Submarines fire in opening-fire, selecting a target surface ship and hitting on four or less. Losses on enemy are removed immediately unless enemy Destroyer(s) present.
From second cycle of combat, each Destroyers may “screen” out one surface ship of their power when targeted by a submarine, potential hits goes against that ship instead.
Each Destroyer has two ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare) rolls. A “search” roll is rolled after selecting a target Submarine and succeed on four or less. Once found, an “attack” roll hit on two or less. Each roll is performed separately. A unit cannot use both of its ASW “attack” roll on the same enemy unit.

Surviving and unfound Submarines can submerge to end combat and remain in the sea zone, or conduct further combat. If it conducts further combat it is automatically found without any “search” rolls.
From turn 4, each US and UK planes are also given 2 ASW rolls each. Bombers may only use their ASW rolls as “search” rolls. From turn 6, each US and UK ASW “attack” rolls hit on three or less.

[Imperious Leader]

Its phase two stuff…

[tekkyy]

In that case…

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Final draft for phase 1

SS hits can no longer be taken by SS. It still cannot be taken by FTR or BB.

[Imperious Leader]

right.