Sub - tranny question!

[Eetion]

Hey!
Our group has come up with a big disagreement!
The issue is: can a transport load up units from a seazone containing an enemy sub that you are at war with and afterwards move out of that seazone to preform an amphip assault on another territory while a destroyer then handles the submarine in the seazone?

Ty for fast answers!

[Krieghund]

Yes.

[mattsk]

Question answered.
In earlier games, however, this wasn’t possible and it’s lead to a tactics called “sub stalling” .

[IKE]

You can load because the sz is not hostile but you could not offload for an amp assault in that sz, unless you brought a warship allowing you to ignore the enemy sub.  Correct?  And by warship, is that any ship, including a sub?

[Witt]

Morning Ike. A Sub is included.
A Carrier is not. See page 32 of Pacific: the accompanying Naval unit needs an attack value.

[Eetion]

Thanks for the fast answer ;)!

[cyanight]

The first paragraph on page 33 explains it very well…

Whenever a transport offloads, it can’t move again that turn. If a transport retreats, it can’t offload that turn. A transport can’t offload in two territories during a single turn, nor can it offload cargo onto another transport. A transport can’t load or offload while in a hostile sea zone. Remember that hostile sea zones contain enemy units, but that for purposes of determining the status of a sea zone, submarines and transports are ignored.

[cyanight]

and from Page 32…

Transports may not attack without being accompanied by at least 1 unit with an attack value, unless they are conducting an amphibious assault from a friendly sea zone that is free of enemy submarines.

Subs do not block loading… But they do block unloading unless the territory that your offloading is friendly. If your offloading onto an enemy territory then its considered an attack and the sub will block the unloading of the transport unless its accompanied by a warship (DD, CA, BB, CV).

[Krieghund]

@wittmann:

Morning Ike. A Sub is included.
A Carrier is not. See page 32 of Pacific: the accompanying Naval unit needs an attack value.

Carriers do qualify as escorting warships.  An attack value is only required when attacking in a sea battle.  Since the transport fleet is ignoring the enemy sub rather than attacking it, there will be no sea battle.

[Witt]

Apologies all. Thanks Krieg.

[knp7765]

@Krieghund:

@wittmann:

Morning Ike. A Sub is included.
A Carrier is not. See page 32 of Pacific: the accompanying Naval unit needs an attack value.

Carriers do qualify as escorting warships.  An attack value is only required when attacking in a sea battle.  Since the transport fleet is ignoring the enemy sub rather than attacking it, there will be no sea battle.

Krieghund,
I did not know a carrier could be considered an escorting warship for amphibious assault purposes.
Am I correct in saying that a carrier still can not conduct convoy raiding by itself nor can a carrier destroy defenseless transports?

[Krieghund]

Yes, that’s correct.

[knp7765]

Well, a carrier CAN enter a hostile sea zone, they just don’t have an attack value. They would have to suffer the first round of defender rolls then retreat.

[Krieghund]

Neither carriers nor transports may attack (enter a hostile sea zone) without being accompanied by a unit that has an attack value.

[cyanight]

Good Point Krieghund… I had not thought of a carrier as a warship but corrected my post above.