@imperious-leader said in Global 1940 Fixed Units Variants:
@gen-manstein right, just off the top of my head.Baron M. could collaborate
Barons to busy. We don’t need his collaborate.
Cavalry Unit
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Some great replies there.
As far as the differences on the main fronts, would this be facilitated simply by increasing the number of areas in the east so that they are roughly the same size geographically as in the west?
This would require the unlimited rail movement, but might reproduce the small number of units/large number of tts nature of eastern front battles.
Something else I’ve proposed is that Russia is limited in the number of mechanical units it can produce in a turn, and that the UK cannot build them in India; so it may be more economical for them to buy cavalry than fighters or tanks in these circumstances.
Its true to say that to a large extent cavalry was obsolete by 1914, but the fact is that every army had large numbers of cavalry units - so why not include them?
You might as well say that since Battleships were effectively obsolete by WWII, they should not be included in games covering that period.
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The reason i dont want cavalry to fight as well as infantry because on the western front, they were never as effective as infantry. Also alot of the defences used in battles were either prebuilt, or they were built fast enough before the enemy arrived. Hence why calvary should not be affective even on the opening battle.
The reason why calvary is so weak on the western front is because they were. The western powers did not keep recruiting more and more calvary during the war because their cost greatly outweighed their value. This is why calvary will be starting units in the game but phased out as they die. They should disappear on the westernfront like they did historically.
I split the areas where calvary could be affective because only in the easternfront, middleeast and africa could they be a useful unit. Maybe just have the cav out number the infantry to get combat bonuses, and upgrade 2 artillary foreach unit available. This way Russia and Austria wont have to buy as many planes as calvary could do the job. As calvary start dying out and they cant produce enough cav to cover the arty for an effective cost, they will have to buy planes. Itll be a gradual progress of building an airforce over the war and i think it would represent it historically.
In the middle east and africa, calvary could attack at a 3 and defend on a 2 all the time and give bonuses to artillary like the eastern front.
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I think the only successful cavalry charge during WWI was the attack on Beersheba in the Middle East, so its safe to say it was obsolete. Maybe they can start with it, but cant buy it,
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Last succseful charge of a cavalry brigade was on August 11th 1914 at Lagarde.
Theres no wikipedia article of the victory of the bavarian Ulanenbrigade in english, so here is the german link:
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On the other hand cavalry was still used extensively in WWII on the Eastern front, a lack of useable roads for mechanical untis is one reason. One could argue that these were mounted infantry, but with the scouting role still relevant.
The cost of horse fodder was another reason they were phased out in the west.
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On the other hand cavalry was still used extensively in WWII on the Eastern front, a lack of useable roads for mechanical untis is one reason. One could argue that these were mounted infantry, but with the scouting role still relevant.
The cost of horse fodder was another reason they were phased out in the west.
Horses were still needfull in wwII. But not relevant for battles.
The link you posted is irrelevant. Maybe a big Battle for polish historians, but for me it looks like 5 guys on horses tricked 2 kids with an antitankgun in the last days of the war… -
Why would cavalry boost artillery? Aircraft do this due to their eye-in-the-sky capabilities, but I’m not sure I follow the connection of cavalry to my guns to shooting more accurately.
I do, however, see a connection between a successful overall attack (infantry, planes, arty, etc.) and a bonus to cavalry subsequent to that. If they served any unique use it was to take advantage of a breakthrough (much as what tanks would later do–or better, help create one).
Reading Norman Stone’s The Eastern Front (p.134-135), the mobility of cavalry divisions was a bit of a myth. Horses require a lot more food than men, and it caused massive logistical problems, especially train transport, for the Russian army. Given Russia’s already stressed rail infrastructure, all those cavalry divisions posed a strategic problem in addition to their tactical advantages.
On the other hand, cav divisions had their own organic artillery and machine guns.
The Middle East and German Southwest Africa (camelry, too, here) were also important places for cavalry or mounted infantry. In German East Africa, horses didn’t last too long due to disease.
Where could you find a game piece to represent cavalry? I’ve not seen anything that fits the 23mm size very well.
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I use older risk peices for cav. They dont fit the best but its the closest i got.
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@Quintus:
I use older risk peices for cav. They dont fit the best but its the closest i got.
Looks to be a good size. I looked around for anything that came close, and found zilch. Maybe HGB will cook up something. I know they have a French cavalry piece in the works. Maybe an uhlan and a cossack can be slipped in…
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Last succesfully cavalry charge was actually during ww2. Amedeo Guillet successfully charged british armored divisions and put their tanks on fire with incendiary bombs. The objective was to slow down the british units to let the big bulk of the african Italian division to evaquate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amedeo_Guillet#World_War_II
Guillet’s most important battle happened towards the end of January 1941 at Cherù when he decided to attack enemy armoured units. At the end of 1940, the allied forces faced Guillet on the road to Amba Alagi, and specifically, in the proximity of Cherù. He was entrusted by Duca Amedeo Of Aosta with the task of delaying the allied advance from the North-West. The battles and skirmishes in which this young lieutenant was a protagonist (Amedeo did not have the appropriates rank, but he commanded an entire brigade) are boldly written in the British bulletins of war. The “devilries” that he created from day to day, almost seen as a game, explains why the British called him not only “Knight from other times” but also the Italian “Lawrence of Arabia”. Horse charges with unsheathed sword, guns, incendiary and hand bombs against the armoured troops had a daily cadence. A look at official documents show that in January 1941 at Cherù "… with the task of protecting the withdrawal of the battalions… with skillful maneuver and intuition of a commander… In an entire day of furious combats on foot and horseback, he charged many times while leading his units, assaulting the preponderant adversary (in number and means) soldiers of an enemy regiment, setting tanks on fire, reaching the flank of the enemy’s artilleries… although huge losses of men,… Capt. Guillet,… in a particularly difficult moment of this hard fight, guided with disregard of danger, an attack against enemy tanks with hand bombs and benzine bottles setting two on fire while a third managed to escape while in flames."In those months many proud Italians died, including many brave Eritreans who fought without fear for a king and a people who they never saw or knew. Even today, the “Devil Commander” uses words of deep respect and admiration for that proud population to whom he feels himself in debt as a soldier, Italian and man.
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Looks to be a good size. I looked around for anything that came close, and found zilch. Maybe HGB will cook up something. I know they have a French cavalry piece in the works. Maybe an uhlan and a cossack can be slipped in…
The 2002 edition of Sid Meier’s Civilization: The Boardgame includes these Gunpowder Era Dragoons. The first picture below isn’t taken from a good angle, but the second one is a bit better. I like to think of these units as representing French WWI mounted cuirassiers (if there was such a thing).
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/873915/sid-meiers-civilization-the-boardgame
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/89426/sid-meiers-civilization-the-boardgame
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@CWO:
Looks to be a good size. I looked around for anything that came close, and found zilch. Maybe HGB will cook up something. I know they have a French cavalry piece in the works. Maybe an uhlan and a cossack can be slipped in…
The 2002 edition of Sid Meier’s Civilization: The Boardgame includes these Gunpowder Era Dragoons. The first picture below isn’t taken from a good angle, but the second one is a bit better. I like to think of these units as representing French WWI mounted cuirassiers (if there was such a thing).Â
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/873915/sid-meiers-civilization-the-boardgame
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/89426/sid-meiers-civilization-the-boardgame
Great find! French cuirassiers did ride into battle, complete with breastplates in the early part of the war. Usually, they had covers for their helmets and plates to decrease their visibility.
Austro-Hungarian hussars (I think) also wore their crested helmets even after becoming dismounted units, for a while. They probably ditched these once the steel helmets became available, but in some photos, you can see that old style helmet covered over with canvas, etc.
The modern cavalry from Civ remind me of mounted Schutztruppe units (in East Africa), or perhaps better, the mounted elements of the Seebattalion in China!
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Has anyone seen cavalry sculpts on Shapeways that might fit this time period and/or scale?
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Also available are these two-part units from War! Age of Imperialism. They’re rather large for A&A purposes, but they don’t look quite so bad next to the WWI A&A sculpts than next to the generally smaller WWII A&A sculpts.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/859746/war-age-of-imperialism
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/859747/war-age-of-imperialism
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If you’re going to use 1/72 scale figs you might as well get the real deal from HaT:
http://www.hat.com/Othr8/Buck64P.html
http://www.hat.com/Othr8/Buck58P.html
http://www.hat.com/Othr8/Buck57P.html
or Strelets:
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I’m inclining towards:
cost 6
attack @ 2
defend @ 1
promote artillery on a one-to-one basis
can be replaced by an infantry unit during any place new units phaseThe cost here may seem excessive, but by and large you’re only likely to see the cavalry units that start on the board anyway. Cavalry were expensive to maintain and feed, and they ran out of horses in the end.
This is assuming my suggested new fighter rules are used (fighters level 1 start/1914, level 2 1915 etc AND only one round of air combat).
Have to compile a list of cavalry units to replace infantry in starting setup, also likely to appear in neutral armies when activated;
1 IPC = 1 inf, 1 cav
2 IPC = 2 inf, 1 art, 1 cav
3 IPC = 3 inf, 2 art, 1 cav
4 IPC = 4 inf, 2 art, 2 cav -
Here are four comparative cavalry pictures I took last night, with an A&A 1914 French infantry sculpt included to show scale. The first two pictures are of units from from War! Age of Imperialism.
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The other two pictures are of units from the 2002 edition of Sid Meier’s Civilization: The Boardgame and from a game called Viktory II.
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You have far too many games Marc!
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@wittmann:
You have far too many games Marc!
“Having too many games” is a theoretical concept whose validity could provoke much debate amongst the members of the A&A.org community.
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