Protect or try to recapture an enemy capital. What would you do?

[Tall Paul]

Japan has “technically” already won the game via victory cities. However it sounds like you have an annilhilation match going on.
––Well, it’s hard to give an opinion without seeing the location and numbers of ALL forces. But if Japan has 141 income I think I would have been transitioning to a 4-engine bomber/Mech. Infantry stacks for the bulk of my armies. Bombers aren’t that expensive and have range,….Infantry is cheap and will give you the NUMBERS that you need. I’m sure you already know this.
----Unless I’m incorrect, Japan can build a Major Factory in Korea that would help your European battle efforts. A ways off,…but you could start your Infantry stacks from there. Together with two or three other other Major/Minor Asian factories you should be able to reap your (technically)already won victory. Sounds like a bunch of Fun!

----Got any PICS?  :-D

“Tall Paul”

[Tall Paul]

@rjpeters70:

Yeah, I’d go for a quick kill of USA, or at least taking West Coast and holding it.  Deny the US it’s NOs.  Make it’s factories in Germany irrelevant, since they are minors and you can out produce with your factories in Korea and India.  Walk basic infantry west across Russia.  Force the US to defend Germany/Eastern Russia while at the same time trying to defend against Japanese invasion.

––Exactly. There are 3-4 other Asian countries where you could build minor factories, too. In the long run they would probably be worth the expense as they should help overwhelm the number of US forces in Europe/Russia. WHAT A FUN GAME A&A IS!

“Tall Paul”

[Witt]

Good point about Korea Tall Paul. But it is still a hell of a long way from Moscow and Europe!
The Minor ICs might be the only option.
And I love how rjpeters wants to see the Japanese on American soil.

[MrRoboto]

Going for the US West Coast is the way to go.

If they have a large defensive stack there already, going for a big landing might be difficult. In this case, either

a) Take Panama. With a Harbour there, you are threatening a lot of places (Gibraltar as well, and from there on all of Europe).

b) Establish a quick transport route to Alaska (with a harbour there preferably).

[knp7765]

Here is a couple of pics. I hope you can make out the concentrations of units. I managed to capture most of the board between the two pics. First is Europe, second is Pacific.
Situation:
Japan has some force plowing through the Middle East, but the British are holding strong at Egypt and in Africa. Japan made a few landings there but the Brits whipped them so all Japan land units there are lost. Transports will have to go back to India for more troops.
As you can see, most of Russia and China are vast wastelands at the moment, with no Allied or Axis presence, but that soon will change. Allied units are right at the edge of the Russian border with nothing to stop them blitzing away Russian territories. There are 3 German units left in Leningrad, but I think the Brits will take care of that next round.
There is no Allied presence at all in the Pacific. The US tried fighting the Japanese with navy but the Japanese navy just got too big. The US concentrated heavily on sacking Germany, perhaps a little too much because the West coast is weak. Japan took Alaska, West Canada and Hawaii last round and the US just put 10 defensive units in W USA. They had previously been building warships and aircraft there to fight the Japanese, and they did manage to give Japan a few headaches, but everything else went to Europe.
So, it looks like Japan has a good chance at taking W USA, but with the US still having 2 major ICs to build from and a fair amount of money to spend, I’m not sure if Japan can hold it.
However, the general consensus seems to be go ahead after the US and not worry as much about the Middle-East, Africa or Russia. You are all right, if Japan can take the US out, it doesn’t matter if Russia get’s liberated. Japan will then be able to overwhelm both England and Russia with all of the US territory under it’s belt. It just depends if Japan can somehow match the US production.
By the way, since Japan is ruled by a Militaristic oligarchy, if/when Japan gets into Europe and takes former German and Italian territories, they will NOT be liberated. They will now be Japanese. After all, Japan is the ONE true race, and the Germans and Italians are losers and thus have no honor.

[MrRoboto]

Now that we’ve seen pictures, I can give some more input:

Africa/Middle East:

You have no chance in Africa. Your main goal should be to hold Iraq. I suggest building factories in Iraq and Persia. Pump out infantry against a landattack from Egypt. All excess units should go to Tambov -> that way you can recapture Moscow, Volgograd and Rostov. If it’s possible to recapture Ukraine for the factory there, do so.
I really recommend building/sending some more air in the middle East. Right now you are very vulnerable to the US navy there. The US navy can send protection for british transports to land in India or whatever. With a strong japanese airforce, they can’t really navigate a lot. Additionally your airforce is ALSO protecting against a land invasion coming from egypt. AND it can fly to tambov and attack the russian territories. An airfield in Iraq is helpful.
So overall:

• Play defensive, especially with airforce in Iraq that serves multiple purposes.
• Maintain a force big enough to recapture major russian territories (moscow, ukraine, stalingrad)

Pacific

This is where the gap between you and the Allies is the biggest. Additionally, UK can’t help here a lot. So you have to make sure to always invest a bit more here than the US can.
Place a harbor+factory in Alaska. Strengthen your navy, so that US can’t suddenly make an all-navy buy in one round to push you away. Your navy also needs to be bigger than the US atlantic navy. Send more subs to convoy the US westcoast.
I suggest to establish a transport rotation from Japan/Korea to Alaska. Have ~15-20 transports overall (for example 8 at Japan, 8 at Alaska, bringing 16 troops every round). Since Alaska will have a harbour, you are threatening Panama all the time.
When the possibility arises, capture Panama (only, if you can hold it against the counter attack). Remember, you can build transports in the Alaska factory, so that eventually you’ll be able to land in Panama AND US Westcoast anytime with more than 15 transports.
If you can hold Panama for one round, to pass the canal and build a harbor there, you are on a very good way, as long as your navy is bigger than the Allied navy. From there on, I see no way for you to lose, anymore.

How to react, should UK decide to really invest a lot in Atlantic to help hold Panama:

In this case, I suggest taking your entire Pacific navy and sail to Iraq. US will have mostly ground units in USA and not a lot of transports. So these troops will be useless now, for a couple of rounds.
It should be very hard for the Allies, to defend south africa AND egypt. And if you have one of them, you have a good position.

[ItIsILeClerc]

Interesting situation!

The USA itself is indeed the place where your only chance of victory is.
I’d invest as much on defeating the USA on its very own soil as needed, with the excess IPCs going to defend your asian and Middle East theatres. It’s not too big of a gamble. Read my first post (last aragraph) and all the suggestions by the others about how-to (possibly) kill the USA. Remember it is not a 100% guarantee but the best shot at victory you have.

You will loose this game if you will try to defeat the allies in Russia/Africa, because with all the territories that they still can liberate without you being able to do anything about it, they will reach an income of around 175 IPCs together, defeating your 141 eventually. All allies can deploy easily on this theatre and if they dig in and spend as much as you do in here, they can spend their excess (30-ish) IPCs elsewhere, where you can be defeated eventually.

I even think Liberating Moscow is not beyond the allies because their ICs are closer by, creating an even bigger economic gap.

In Amerika however, it is more difficult for the allies to deploy together.

Remember that taking US WC will decrease their income by 20 IPCs and increase yours by 15! They may have 2 majors in the USA but only 64 IPCs to buy units there

[Tall Paul]

––After seeing the pics and your situation in Europe & Africa,…I agree with MrRoboto’s strategy.
It looks like you have a VERY ENJOYABLE game going on there! Thanks for sharing it with us.
––I can’t say this enough,…
Axis & Allies is the best game in the World!

“Tall Paul” :-D

[MrRoboto]

To be perfectly honest, if the Allies react correctly, I think they have a bigger shot at victory.

France can produce fighters, UK can set up a quick transport-rotation from London to help secure US soil.

It’s hard to really see the exact army strengths in the pictures. So I really can’t forsee, if you’ll be able to get Panama and/or US West.

But if you’re not able to do this, the race for Africa (you via indian ocean, the allies via atlantic+med) will be the ultimate climax afterwards

[ItIsILeClerc]

@MrRoboto:

To be perfectly honest, if the Allies react correctly, I think they have a bigger shot at victory.

France can produce fighters, UK can set up a quick transport-rotation from London to help secure US soil.

It’s hard to really see the exact army strengths in the pictures. So I really can’t forsee, if you’ll be able to get Panama and/or US West.

But if you’re not able to do this, the race for Africa (you via indian ocean, the allies via atlantic+med) will be the ultimate climax afterwards

Agree completely.
Thus, I think the best shot at victory comes from hitting the US as hard as possible and hold out in Asia/Africa/Middle East as long as possible.
Trying to win in Mainland Eurasia just plays into the allies’ hands right from the start…

[knp7765]

UPDATE
Well, we got through round 18 last night. Here’s the situation:
The Brits were too strong in Egypt and ended up taking Iraq and Persia from Japan even though Japan put a shiny new Minor IC on each and were pumping out units there. It just wasn’t enough. They also kept going and liberated Calcutta as well.
The Allies also liberated Russia and marched into part of China. Their progress is slowed now because they are closer to the Japan ICs on the coast (Korea, Kiangsu and Kwangtung). There is a bitter back and forth battle there between Japan and British, Russian and French units (yes, believe it or not, French!).
On the other side, Japan did take Western USA and traded Central USA with the US 3 or 4 times before finally having enough there to keep it. ICs on Alaska and Mexico helped there. There were a couple of fights for Central America but Japan finally got that too. They worked their way across Canada and got that IC so Eastern US was pretty much surrounded. Then Japan finally went all out and took Washington.
After about 3 rounds to build up new troops and get their transport fleet from the Pacific to the Atlantic, Japan pulled a Sealion and took London.
So now Japan has all the Pacific, all of the US and London with a very strong fleet in the Atlantic. There is no Allied naval presence anywhere. Japan has gotten into Africa from the west this time and has taken several territories, including South Africa and it’s IC.
The only Allies left are India, Russia, France and sort of China. China has Allied forces liberating their territories, but has only been able to buy 1 or 2 infantry per turn which usually get wiped out by the next Japanese attack, so they aren’t really helping much.
Japan has a smaller force of 5 transports with 5 infantry, 3 tanks and 2 mechs at Gibraltar, plus 3 tanks left in London, and are trying to figure out where to go next.
1 > they could attack France, sort of like a reverse Normandy landing.
2 > they could try liberating Italy.
3 > they could try liberating Germany.
4 > they could spread out and pick off little territories in North Africa, the Balkans and possibly Scandanavia.
5 > they could go all the way up north and try to punch down through Russia to recapture Moscow.

By the way, I know at this point is seems silly to continue this game and I thought we would call it done, but my gaming buddies asked me to leave it up. Maybe they are wanting to see how long it takes for Japan to accomplish total world domination? Since my weekend is about over, probably won’t get back to the game until next weekend if at all.
Just out of curiosity, which of the above options would you choose in this situation?

[ch0senfktard]

Did England and France even bother to send aid to the USA?

[MrRoboto]

The game worked out 100% as I said it would :-)

You shouldn’t even have bought the IC’s in Iraq/Persia it seems. It was hard to see the exact army strength from the pictures. Without these IC’s, liberating Calcutta would have been probably way harder.

The Allies did not seem to correctly respond to Japan threatening US soil. I still believe, that with enough help from London, Washington could have been defended.

You can basically do everything you want now, there is no way for you to lose.

You really shouldn’t liberate Italy. Personally, I wouldn’t liberate Germany either. Both would start with 0 units, only very small income and only a minor IC. The non-japanese units can’t attack on their own either, cause they’re probably too weak.

Personally, I’d declare war to the true neutrals now. Take Venezuela, Chile and Argentina for even more extra IPC.

You can the very easily establish a transport rotation from US east+central + London to Spain (with a harbour in spain, that rotation is super strong).
Going for Norway+Sweden+Finland is a good idea too, cause Russia will have problems defending that.

Convoy Africa, Iraq, Persia and India all the way

[JamesG]

@rjpeters70:

Who controls Berlin and Rome?  If the US, ignore them.  If the British, kill them.  Otherwise, you’ll have a cancer that can roll out three infantry a turn.

Can UK-India use Factories on the Europe map?  I thought only UK-London could.  And Japan controls London now, so I think Berlin/Rome are “dead” in either US or UK hands.

Or am I wrong about that?

[knp7765]

Okay, here are a couple of pics. Since Japan totally rules the Pacific and North America, I tried to focus on the main areas of action. Sorry about the glare in Russia, but without that lamp, it was so dark up there the Russian units weren’t even showing up.
@ch0senfktard:

Did England and France even bother to send aid to the USA?

England did some. They had to repair the factory in Quebec and put some men there to try and keep it from Japan, but failed. They probably could have done more but our UK player was really focused on hitting the Japanese in the Middle East and moving on to liberate India, which he did quite handily.
By the way Mr. Roboto, you were totally right. Those Middle East ICs were a big mistake for Japan and ended up being a big benefit for the Brits. Although, they might have been sort of a blessing in disguise. England was so intent on taking them that maybe it kept him from sending more help to the US.
As for France, NO, they did not send any help to the US. For one thing, they have/had no ships at all. Most of France’s help to the Allies was sending tanks, mechs and planes from their captured IC in Romania to liberate Russian and Chinese territories. Japan has had several battles with French forces in southern China.
Now that the US fell, France has been concentrating on building up defense for their own country.
@rjpeters70:

Agree on attacking the neutrals at this point.  No reason not to.

Who controls Berlin and Rome?  If the US, ignore them.  If the British, kill them.  Otherwise, you’ll have a cancer that can roll out three infantry a turn.  Besides, if you liberate Germany and Italy, then can quickly get the NOs that are otherwise not available to Japan.  Within two turns, that’s an extra ~30 IPCs that the Axis will be making that Japan would not otherwise be making if it didn’t have Berlin and Rome back in the fight.  Not that it makes any difference.  I don’t see how the Allies recover from this.

EXCELLENT IDEAS!! I didn’t even think about hitting the Neutrals. After all, the Great Powers of the West have felt the Imperial Iron Fist so why shouldn’t all the little piddling Neutrals add their resources to feed the hungry Japanese dragon.
As for Berlin and Rome, they are BOTH controlled by the US and therefore worthless to the Allies. Japan can take all the German and Italian territory around the capitals and get even richer.
I was going to call it game over, but now I’m excited to see the Rising Sun on all territories of the world.
By the way, Japan has all 12 techs on the board. England did too. USA had 8 or 9. Russia even has 5 or 6.
We give free tech rolls based on income:
0-24 = 0 rolls
25-49 = 1 roll
50-74 = 2 rolls
75-99 = 3 rolls
100+ = 4 rolls.
Every round, each country that qualifies gets free roll(s) based on it’s income. They get to choose which tech they want to roll for. They place a control marker and a tech token(s) on that tech. If they roll a 6 they get that tech. If not, then they leave the tech token(s) and try again next turn ALONG with that current turn’s roll(s). Each new roll(s) have to go on a different tech (so you can’t just stack up free rolls on the same tech).
As the game goes on, you could end up rolling for several different techs. Also, you could possibly get more than one tech breakthrough in a single turn. Russia got 4 techs in a single turn rolling just 1 die for each.
I wanted to get tech into the game, but this may be too much tech. One thing I noticed is if both sides have all the same techs, it doesn’t seem to make much difference. You just wipe each other out a little faster. It then falls back to a simple numbers game – If you have more troops, tanks and planes than him, then you win.
Perhaps I should have simply added each turn’s free rolls to the same tech until it gets a breakthrough then choose a new tech to try for. Maybe my tech chart wouldn’t be quite so crowded.

[knp7765]

@rjpeters70:

I’m assuming, since they’ve thrown victory conditions out the window, that Calcutta is now the center of the British empire, and controls all the IPCs and factories everywhere.

But, again, who controls Germany and Rome?  USA?  UK?

Well, I was thinking Calcutta would only get the IPCs from the UK Pacific territories, but I guess they could now control what is left of the UK Europe territories. Doubt that it will really help them in the long run, but it might be an interesting twist.

[MrRoboto]

You don’t really need any more help in this game, it’s basically impossible for you not to win.

However, I would not suggest to attack Normandy just yet. It will just be recaptured directly.

I still think, taking the Scandinavian territories and Portugal/Spain is the way to go.

[knp7765]

FINAL UPDATE
Hey y’all,
Well, we finished it today. It took a total of 25 rounds. Japan has a territorial income of 275 IPCs. I figured out that is the maximum that Japan could get. It includes all Allied territories, all neutral territories plus all German and Italian territories outside of their capitals. So, that leaves another 8 IPCs on the table under US control, but if Japan took those two territories, that would be 32 less IPCs for Japan (25 to Germany and 7 to Italy). Of course, since we kind of threw the rules for victory out of the window, I suppose we could have simply altered the liberation rules too and simply say that anything Japan conquers is Japanese and that Germany and Italy are out permanently.
Look at my pics. That’s what it looks like when Japan rules the world! A Japanese marker on just about every territory available on the board. I did miss a few small ones. Sicily and Sardinia were never taken by the Allies so they actually remain in Italian control. Crete and Eire I simply forgot to move any troops into.
So now Japan rules the world. It might not be so bad. Japanese chicks are cute.

[knp7765]

Here’s the center part of the map I couldn’t get in the first two shots.

By the way, we use Neutral blocks so attacking a Neutral in South America doesn’t affect a Neutral in Europe or the Middle East. So when I (Japan) went after the Neutrals, I simply went after one block at a time so I didn’t leave any “free” troops to the Allies.

[1Bean432]

EPIC.

Am curious as to why you have so many rising tokens.