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Triple A G40 - Comprehensive list of currently unresolved issues
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I did not realize that was finally added, Gamer/Veq. Good to know.
Shift+Click for 5, Control+Click for 10 and Shift+Control+Click for all is still kind of ingrained in me, but I’ll try to switch to ALT+Click
I knew about the select ALL units in a territory/sea zone. But I don’t use ALL units that often…probably because I’m the worst Global 1940 player EVAR! (best AAR and AARe though!)
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U just played too many years with Battlemap, Jenn - old habits die hard :-)
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U just played too many years with Battlemap, Jenn - old habits die hard :-)
Are you calling me old now???
:P
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No way, I would never do that because you’re younger than me.
You just came to the site earlier than almost everyone who’s here now. I feel like one of the more senior, and I came in the fall of 2008 when AA50 came out.
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Yea, I came after AAR but before AARe or AA50 for sure! I remember learning about AAR here and thinking it a VAST improvement over classic. (don’t get me wrong, classic is good too, I just like AAR more.) Then there was the prettiness of HASBRO’s Axis and Allies. I feel many of the sprites in TripleA are kinda a ripoff of Hasbro’s pieces which I think is where the kernel of my dislike of TripleA might come from. (Believe me, there are many reasons outlined here that added to that nugget!)
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More items have been added to the list of issues, some edits have been made. It’s a long list.
This is an important player aid for players using Triple A:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cS3hFwoBP0rWr3208jw1LAtCvHYa9Ji9uU8PwbCMIwM/edit
Edited 7a
Triple A does bar you from flying over friendly neutrals and strict neutrals, but not from flying over unfriendly neutralsEdited 8b
Is an issue on the Pacific map only (does not allow you to place a base on Suriname)Edited 10
Changed “facilities” to “bases” because there is no issue with the IC in India. When testing, I noted that British bases added to the Pacific map were repairable by the British and UK-Pac bases added to the map were repairable by UK-Pac. I think the engine always converts them to British when built in-game, so this creates a problem, which can be worked around by players who know the rules.Added 17a, bombardment
Thanks
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TripleA 1.8.0.1 is out, and Global 1940 2nd version 3.9 is out.
There are lot of fixes in each.
Unless someone can post a savegame as evidence of a bug, using both TripleA 1.8.0.1 engine, and Global 1940 2nd Edition version 3.9, (or the latest version of each, in the future), then the following lines need to be removed from the document:
Fixed:
1a) Resolved
2a) Resolved
3a) Paratroopers - Doesn�t allow you to launch paratroopers from your Ally�s air base. (Resolved)
3c) Paratroopers - Does not allow you to add paratroopers (to join an overland or amphibious attack) to attack an undefended enemy territory. (Resolved)
3d) Paratroopers - Counts spaces over land instead of over water even when over water is shorter (That is, does not allow paratroop attacks from West Germany to Norway, Sweden, Finland, etc, for example) (Resolved)
4b) SBR - Triple A has you choose targets before the air battle, but attacker does not have to choose targets until AFTER the air battle. (No evidence of occurring / Can not replicate)
5a) Sub Combat - When an enemy destroyer is present, Triple A still has the subs fire separately first, both on offense and defense. This forces casualty choices prematurely that should not have to be made. (Resolved)
5b) (is badly worded, see better description below)
5c) Subs - Program sometimes does not allow retreats from enemy subs. (No evidence of occurring / Can not replicate)
9a) China is not subject to convoy disruptions, but this is not programmed into Triple A. Player will have to manually add back Chinese IPC�s for any the program takes away. (Resolved)
9b) China cannot declare war on Germany/Italy in Triple A. If Germany/Italy controls Kwangtung or Burma, China should be permitted to declare war on them so that China can invade. (Resolved a long time ago)
11) Resolved
14) Triple A gives you a retreat option when facing only transports, but this is illegal. You can�t retreat from transports only or AAA only. (No evidence of occurring / Can not replicate)
C) Triple A occasionally thinks a flight path is illegal when it is legal, sometimes even when carriers are not involved. (No evidence of occurring / Can not replicate)Gamerman01, i trust you will clean up the document.
I have also updated the Global 1940 and 1942 game notes to include the following, which I view as a complete list of issues:
Edit Mode
If you ever need to create new UK units, always create “British” units, do not create “UK_Pacific” units (except for Factories, all UK_Pacific units turn into British units when placed normally).
The Warbonds technology will give the PUs to the British, please use edit mode if you want some of it to go to UK Pacific.
You may also need to use edit mode to correct things listed below.Below is a list of rules that the TripleA game engine either does not enforce, or enforces incorrectly, at this point.
Each item starts with a code in parentheses that represents how you may fix or correct the rule.
(PE) = Player Enforced = You must be aware of the rule and must follow it. The engine will not stop you from breaking the rule.
(CL) = Comment Log = You must record what you are doing in the comment log, because TripleA does not keep that information around. (To access the comment log, go to the ‘view’ menu, and click ‘show comment log’, then type a comment there.)
(SR) = Save/Reload = You may save the game now or at the start of the phase, then reload it, in order to solve this problem.
(EM) = Edit Mode = You must use Edit Mode to correct or fix the error, because the engine either disallows the rule or otherwise does something wrong that you can correct.
(NA) = None Available = There is no fix available for this yet.Rules specific to 1940 the engine does not do, but you must follow:
- (EM) You may ask for permission during your turn to move through a canal owned by a power you are not yet at war with (use edit mode to move them).
- (EM) India (UK Pacific) must pay for repairing any damaged facilities on the pacific half of the board (instead of London paying) (use edit mode to subtrack the PUs from India and give back to London).
- (CL) TripleA does not keep track of which neutral territories have been previously attacked (use comment log to keep track of this instead).
- (PE) You are not allowed to blitz or move any units through Friendly Neutrals, including the same turn they are captured, unless they have been previously attacked.
- (PE) You may not land air units in Friendly Neutrals, including the same turn they are captured, unless they have been previously attacked.
- (PE) You can not fly over unfriendly neutrals, unless they are being attacked or they have previously been attacked.
- (PE) Friendly Neutrals can not be ‘captured’ with an AA Gun, only by land units with an attack power.
- (PE) You may not build facilities on territories that were Dutch at the start of your turn.
- (PE) You may not attack a territory containing units owned by a nation that you are not at war with (even if the territory is owned by someone you are at war with).
- (PE) USA may not end movement in seazone adjacent to Japanese controlled territories when not at war with Japan (Sea Zones 6, 17, 19, 20, 22, 32, 33, 34, 36, and 37).
- (EM) Japan can fly over UK and French territories before going to war with them.
- (EM) USA does not have to declare war at the end of USA 3 if they do not want to.
- (PE) You may not conduct an amphibious assault from an allied transport if the defender could scramble and you have no other combat units to protect that transport.
- (EM) If Russia is at war with Italy, but not with Germany, a German warship in sz125 will cancel Russia’s national objective (and same if at war with Germany but not Italy, and there is an Italian boat in sz125).
- (EM) If UK Pacific captures Japan, the money should go to UK Pacific, even if UK Pacific’s capital is occupied.
- (EM) You must place all units you purchased if you are able to, or as many as you can. Any units not placed get refunded to you (TripleA instead carries them over to the next turn).
- (PE) The victory conditions must be held for a full continuous round after they are achieved (so for example if Italy takes Egypt as the 8th European VC, then the Axis must hold 8 VCs continuously until Italy’s next turn).
- (NA) During an SBR, AA fire and casualty selection should be done on a per-facility-being-attacked basis.
- (EM) Rocket damage to an airfield should occur after scrambling, which means if an airbase is disabled by the rocket attack, it could still scramble this turn.
- (PE) Paratroopers (airborne) may not attack multiple territories from a single airbase.
General rules for all A&A games that the engine does not do, but you must follow:
- (PE) Battles should be resolved in this order: all SBR, then all Amphibious Assaults, then all others.
- (SR or EM) Repairing and Purchase are should actually be done at the same time.
- (CL) TripleA does keep track of which units are on which transports, but there is no easy way to see this information when it is not your turn.
- (CL) TripleA should, but does not keep track of which air units are on which carriers.
- (PE) All air moved must have a way of potentially being picked up or landing, and all air that survives combat MUST be picked up if possible.
- (PE) TripleA should not allow non-combat moves to be done during combat move phase.
- (PE) Only non-air units that did not move during combat move and did not participate in combat, may move during non-combat-move.
- (PE) Transports can only be loaded in 1 phase (not both), and unloaded in 1 phase (not both).
- (PE) Transports if unloading for amphibious assault, must unload all their units, and may not hold back some units while offloading other units.
- (NA) Rocket attacks should all be chosen first, before any dice and results are shown.
- (NA) You should be able to SBR / Rocket attack an empty territory that you are blitzing.
- (NA) Each phase of combat should have all units in that phase fire before any casualty selection occurs, whereas right now in TripleA if air and subs are involved then units might be broken up into smaller groups and casualty selection done for each group.
- (EM) If you select for a bombardment from a sea zone, you should be able to select which units you want to have bombard, but currently all possible units are used.
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Of course I’ll update the document.
I’m really glad you made many fixes and improvements, although disappointed that you could not see a problem with 4b, 5c, or 14But no matter, as long as we know the rules and what to watch out for, we can play G40 using Triple A and properly following the rule book.
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This is a significant improvement, and I’m glad you noted so many things in the game notes!
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Of course I’ll update the document.
I’m really glad you made many fixes and improvements, although disappointed that you could not see a problem with 4b, 5c, or 14But no matter, as long as we know the rules and what to watch out for, we can play G40 using Triple A and properly following the rule book.
I did try and find errors, but for those that I listed as “no evidence / could not replicate”, I could not find any problems.
They should be removed until such a time as someone posts an up-to-date savegame clearly showing the problem.
I would prefer a savegame that is RIGHT BEFORE the error occurs, with instructions on how to make the error occur (such as: click this, move that, and then the error pops up, etc).Chasing down errors that don’t exist, without any evidence, is a huge drain on time.
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4b) SBR - Triple A has you choose targets before the air battle, but attacker does not have to choose targets until AFTER the air battle. (No evidence of occurring / Can not replicate)
OK, I just tested this with your latest version, and it has been fixed. Until now, I’m positive Triple A always made you choose the target before the air battle. Glad it’s fixed, I will remove it.
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I did try and find errors, but for those that I listed as “no evidence / could not replicate”, I could not find any problems.
They should be removed until such a time as someone posts an up-to-date savegame clearly showing the problem.
I would prefer a savegame that is RIGHT BEFORE the error occurs, with instructions on how to make the error occur (such as: click this, move that, and then the error pops up, etc).Chasing down errors that don’t exist, without any evidence, is a huge drain on time.
Sure, I understand. There were very few items on my list that you could not replicate, though.
That was a very long list, and you have remedied very many of them. Huge strides have been made, thanks to both of our efforts. I just said I was disappointed. Please try and not be so defensive. I’m just trying to help people enjoy playing A&A, and play it the right way. Obviously I appreciate all your efforts.
You obviously see this list as an attack on your work, and therefore on yourself personally, and that’s not what it is. It’s a player aid, and an attempt to help you improve Triple A further, which you have now done.
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Example of 5b)
Germany attacks Z110 on G1 with 2 subs and 6 aircraft. UK scrambles aircraft.
Triple A rolls the 2 subs and asks for casualties, then rolls the 6 aircraft and asks for casualties (your notes say this is now fixed - fantastic)
But then Triple A will have the UK aircraft roll (because there is no Allied destroyer) to separate from the Allied ships, because the air cannot hit the subs, so subs are not an eligible casualty choice for aircraft hits. The problem is, it prompts the Germans to choose casualties before seeing the rest of the UK roll. I thought this was pretty clear from the description I had in 5b, but apparently it wasn’t clear enough, so I provide this clear example.
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I thought i was dispassionate in my response. As a dev, I generally do need strong evidence of something in order for me to troubleshoot it. Troubleshooting and debugging things can take hours.
5b, I wanted it reworded because it is actually not specific to air, although air is one of the ways (probably the main way) it pops up. I also felt that your issue on subs and this one sort of combined with how you worded them, when actually they were two separate problems.
The way I have worded it is as follows:
- (NA) Each phase of combat should have all units in that phase fire before any casualty selection occurs, whereas right now in TripleA if air and subs are involved then units might be broken up into smaller groups and casualty selection done for each group right after firing.
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Again, this is a huge leap forward - I’m looking forward to whenever my next game with the new engine will be started.
I understand what you’re saying about sending examples. I am noting in my list the items that you will need examples for.
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Regarding item 16a)
When Japan takes control of more territories during the game, there will be more sea zones that the USA is not allowed in. You just named the sea zones from game start.
Did you notice that there is an issue with Z102 as well? The rule book says that only USA warships may move into Z102 while not at war, that is, transports are not allowed into Z102.
Thanks, and again, I’m glad to see these issues either resolved or at least listed in the game notes.
I have updated my document. I kept numbering the same in an attempt to reduce confusion, so some numbers and letters are now missing.
I lined out items that you said were resolved, until the time that I can confirm that they are resolved. I delete them when I know it’s not a problem.
The main purpose of my list is as a player aid, which is why I occasionally add an item from player anecdotes and have not confirmed them. I have improved the list to note each item that is listed in the Triple A notes, and those where I need to provide evidence to you. -
Gamer, I think 5a at least needs to be reworded, as currently the list suggests that it has been fully fixed. This isn’t the case, since subs still fire before other units, therefore requiring a premature casualty choice (i.e. before total number of hits is known), both on attack and defense. The only thing that has changed is that defending subs no longer fire before attacking units if an attacking destroyer is present.
I think Veqryn summed up the remaining issue nicely in the game notes: “(NA) Each phase of combat should have all units in that phase fire before any casualty selection occurs, whereas right now in TripleA if air and subs are involved then units might be broken up into smaller groups and casualty selection done for each group.” This covers both 5b and the remaining issues with 5a.
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Thank you!!
It appears I lined out 5a some time ago, though, so it has not been listed as a current problem…
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Encountered what I think is a new minor issue today. In a combined amphibious + land assault, TripleA doesn’t allow selection of where the casualties should come from, which makes a difference if you later decide to withdraw the non-amphib units. See http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=33256.msg1265148#msg1265148 for context.
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That’s a good point - I think I remember encountering that a long time ago….
I can add that
I also added item 9c recently - I took over a Chinese territory with an IC on it and Triple A did not remove it.
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