@fantasticfan Allerdings! :grin: Since I could not (yet) find a PM function I started a chat with you (hope this works too).
Greetings from Schwabenländle
Technology
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Again, I say no to 5 IPC research rolls. Either make them 3 IPCs (with tokens) or everyone gets one at turn 4, 6, 8 etc.
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MORE IMPORTANTLY WE SHOULD SORT OUT
A) 6 TECHS
B) 12 TECHS (air/naval chart) (land/economic chart)
C) 12 TECHS (CP favorable techs) (Allied favorable techs)
X) 5 IPCs per tech roll
Y) 5 IPCs per tech token
Z) SOMETHING ELSE
- Free tech every 4th turn
- 1 IPC per roll, 4 more to buy one of what you rolled
- 3 IPC tech tokens
- 5 IPC tech tokens but keep half of them when you get a breakthrough (if you had 4 tokens, keep 2 for next turn)
I like C…the tactics varied by the alliances, so this makes sense, although we need to tweak a few of them.
I think as far as acquiring them, it should be free or as close to free as possible. As BJCard pointed out, there’s not going to be a lot of cash flowing around. Maybe make it a random die roll as to whether you acquire one, then a random as to which one you get. It also needs to be more often than every 4th turn.
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I was thinking tech start appearing in the 4th turn and then every other turn after that. Need 2-3 turns for everyone to ‘settle’ in…
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Counter Proposal:
1. Anti-Submarine Warfare - Your Cruisers prevent enemy subs from submerging or moving through them at a 1:1 ratio
2. War Bonds - During your collect income phase, collect an additional number of IPCs equal to 10% of your National Production Chart level, rounded to the nearest whole number.
3. Advanced Aviation - In combat, fighters hit on a roll of 3 or less.
4. Radio Communications - During combats where friendly forces are also in the contested zone, roll a die. That many friendly artillery may be used to boost your attacking forces, but may not participate in combat.
5. Increased Production - Tank and Fighter costs are reduced by 1 IPC.
6. Improved Shipyards - Naval units cost 1 IPC less.
7. Chemical Warfare - In one attack this turn, roll a die: 1-4 that many infantry do not roll defensively; 5-6: No effect. If the defender also has the Chemical Warfare Breakthrough he halves the number of infantry so immobilized, rounded down.
8. Bombing - Fighters within 2 spaces of an enemy capital may perform a bombing raid instead of engaging in combat. Each fighter in the raid rolls one die, deducting 1 IPC from the attacked power’s treasury for each 1 rolled up to a maximum of 3 IPCs. Surviving fighters return to the same territory they launched the bombing raid from.
9. Battle Cruisers - Cruisers may perform offshore bombardment at 3.
10. Heavy Artillery - Your artillery can support 2 infantry instead of one.
11. AA Guns - Artillery may target fighters before combat begins, firing at 1. Artillery used against aircraft may not fire during subsequent combat. A nation with AA Gun technology may use it against fighters in a bombing raid, provided they have artillery units present in the capital.
12. Naval Aviation - Fighters in territories adjacent to a sea zone in which naval combat will occur may participate in naval combat in the same manner as they do in land combat, but may not be hit by submarines. Surviving fighters return to the same territory they joined the battle from.
Yes, War Bonds would be a sought after tech, but since all the industrialized WWI belligerents issued them, everyone should want them. Making it fixed reduces uncertainty and prevents windfalls like the Ottomans getting 6 extra IPCs out of nowhere. It does add an extra spur to keep as many territories as possible contested.
Remember, IPCs are not just money. They represent the total resources of a nation and are the only way to represent morale without a morale chart, that’s why bombing takes away IPCs, but only 3 max. Tactical bombing is represented by Advanced Aviation.
Edited to fix a spelling error.
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1. Anti-Submarine Warfare - Your Cruisers prevent enemy subs from submerging or moving through them at a 1:1 ratio
This one seems to be a no brainer
2. War Bonds - During your collect income phase, collect an additional number of IPCs equal to 10% of your National Production Chart level, rounded to the nearest whole number.
Interesting Idea, have to think about it, 10% might be too low, and 20% too high
3. Advanced Aviation - In combat, fighters hit on a roll of 3 or less.
Good, same as mine just rephrased
4. Radio Communications - During combats where friendly forces are also in the contested zone, roll a die. That many friendly artillery may be used to boost your attacking forces, but may not participate in combat.
Good Again
5. Increased Production - Tank and Fighter costs are reduced by 1 IPC.
Reasonable
6. Improved Shipyards - Naval units cost 1 IPC less.
Reasonable
7. Chemical Warfare - In one attack this turn, roll a die: 1-4 that many infantry do not roll defensively; 5-6: No effect. If the defender also has the Chemical Warfare Breakthrough he halves the number of infantry so immobilized, rounded down.
This is getting to be a long tech, but I see what and why you want it changed
8. Bombing - Fighters within 2 spaces of an enemy capital may perform a bombing raid instead of engaging in combat. Each fighter in the raid rolls one die, deducting 1 IPC from the attacked power�s treasury for each 1 rolled up to a maximum of 3 IPCs. Surviving fighters return to the same territory they launched the bombing raid from.
Barf, yuck, no, no one will ever do this. Not enough damage compared to the utility of fighters boosting all your artillery. Would you rather MAYBE do 3 IPCs of damage, or have like 6-10 arty boosted to 4?
9. Battle Cruisers - Cruisers may perform offshore bombardment at 3.
not strong enough, offshore bombardments will be really rare in this game. has to do something more potent or be replaced
10. Heavy Artillery - Your artillery can support 2 infantry instead of one.
Standard arty boost, not bad. Good old standby
11. AA Guns - Artillery may target fighters before combat begins, firing at 1. Artillery used against aircraft may not fire during subsequent combat. A nation with AA Gun technology may use it against fighters in a bombing raid, provided they have artillery units present in the capital.
Hardly necessary, we can find something better
12. Naval Aviation - Fighters in territories adjacent to a sea zone in which naval combat will occur may participate in naval combat in the same manner as they do in land combat, but may not be hit by submarines. Surviving fighters return to the same territory they joined the battle from.
Needs to boost cruisers or battleships or no one will do this. Honestly, IL’s point about sea winds being too strong might mean this needs to be replaced. -
It was heavily based off yours, obviously. My only change to Advanced Aviation was taking away the 3 movement for fighters.
For war bonds, maybe round it up. At the start, if Italy had War Bonds it would only get 1 IPC under standard rounding (it starts with 14 IPCs). But if you always round up, Italy would get 2. Germany at it’s starting income would get 4 either way. However, after losing all African territory, it would still get 4 if we always round up and only 3 if we round to the nearest whole number.
Maybe make the floor 2 IPC?
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Also, I feel the less die rolling the better, hence the war bonds switch and the Chemical Warfare switch.
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Whats one or two more dice to roll compared to the 72 you roll in combat :-D
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But we don’t have destroyers.
That’s what I meant when I called them an “invisible unit.” There are no destroyers in the A&A 1914 game. Of course, some destroyer sculpts can easily be imported from the A&A WWII games, but this would be the addition of a unit that doesn’t exist under the 1914 rules rather than a tech upgrade to one which does exist.
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12. Naval Aviation - Fighters in territories adjacent to a sea zone in which naval combat will occur may participate in naval combat in the same manner as they do in land combat, but may not be hit by submarines. Surviving fighters return to the same territory they joined the battle from.
Needs to boost cruisers or battleships or no one will do this. Honestly, IL’s point about sea winds being too strong might mean this needs to be replaced.I sort of sublimated the cruiser/battleship boost into the “in the same manner as they do it land combat.” I assume the battle for air supremacy would happen first, with the side winning air supremacy getting the boost, and then remaining fighters strafing. Just didn’t spell it out.
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@CWO:
But we don’t have destroyers.
That’s what I meant when I called them an “invisible unit.” There are no destroyers in the A&A 1914 game. Of course, some destroyer sculpts can easily be imported from the A&A WWII games, but this would be the addition of a unit that doesn’t exist under the 1914 rules rather than a tech upgrade to one which does exist.
No one in the real Second World War fired rockets out of AA Guns. But in A&A Classic and over versions, AA Guns were upgraded to fire invisible rockets without a separate sculpt being necessary. It was a capability that was added to the existing unit that made the most sense. In this game, the ASW role makes the most sense being assigned to cruisers.
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Yes, a cruiser piece represents a flotilla of perhaps 4-6 cruisers.
An anti sub tech would sprinkle an imaginary destroyer or two in with them.Destroyers of the time were VERY small. Almost practically just gunboats with a few depth charges.
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As it stands now my suggestion is that Battleships can catch one plane.
What does this mean?
Also, i really think a game of this scope only needs 6 techs, but i’ll go with 12. What id rather like to see is 6 techs and 3-6 NA’s per player, because some of the techs are really nation specific. That way you get choice that seems more Historically reasonable. For example: war bonds for Ottomans is bunk, real bunk.
Perhaps just scrap the techs and feature 6 NA’s for each player? That way the flavor of developments would have the feel of what was possible for each nation.
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6 NAs x 8 Powers?
Good luck with that.
6 Techs and 3 “Millitary Doctrines” per power might be better.
Similar to a national advantage, but each power can pick one.
For the US it might be
1. Unequal Terms with Mexico - While the war in Europe drags on the US goes much deeper into Mexico, and strong arms them into an unfair trade deal.
As long as you occupy the United States with 10 Infantry you collect 10 more IPCs per turn from advantageous trade agreements with them.
2. Safe for Democracy - The US can activate strict neutrals as if they were aligned with the US
3. Send in the Marines - US infantry attack at 3 at all times, but cost 4 IPCs.Actually these are crap.
What I am thinking of is “styles of play”. But Im too hungry to think logically right now. -
Ok here goes…
First one idea: Italy and Ottomans cannot ‘build’ tanks, they can only capture them if they win a battle against defending tanks. For each destroyed tank, the attacker needs to roll a 2 or less to salvage the defending tank. A second die is rolled and the result equals the cost of retrofitting the tank for use on his next turn.
Note: all nations can potentially capture destroyed tanks in this same manner.
Second idea: In NCM land units can move 3 spaces
Techs:
Gas Attacks: Roll one D6, result is number of Infantry that must make a saving roll of 2 or less. The ones that roll 3+ are removed from play. This attack is performed first before combat.
Gas Masks: Same as above, but this is an extra roll only for lost units to bring them back @2 or less.
Strategic Artillery: Adjacent artillery can participate in combat and fires at 3 or less. If the attacker wins, these units are not advanced into the captured territory.
Tanks: you may not build tanks as per OOB.
Anti-Submarine Warfare: remains undefined
Industrial Warfare: Naval and Air units cost -1National Advantages:
Germany:
Zeppelins:
Stosstrupen:
Unrestricted Submarine Warfare:England:
War Bonds:etc…
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Have depth charges where cruisers get some of the abilities of destroyers. Something like, subs can’t submerge when fighting a cruiser. Gives the allies a chance against the rampaging German subs.
That sounds kind of stupid. The Germans should be able to submerge. I mean, putting too many restrictions on the warfare is no fun. And it’s not fair to the attacking subs to not be able to submerge, unless you mean when being attacked. Even then, there’s no way the sub could do anything and in an instance like that they would just run away.
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My version did prevent subs from submerging at a 1:1 ratio.
One cruiser can only prevent 1 sub from submerging
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Economic Techs
1. War Bonds - During your collect income phase, collect an additional number of IPCs equal to 10% of your National Production Chart level, rounded up.
2. Increased Production - Tank and Fighter costs are reduced by 1 IPC.
3. Improved Shipyards - Naval units cost 1 IPC less.
We can argue about the war bonds. I think 10% is better than a die roll and if we round up, the average pay off should be between 2 and 4 IPCs.
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Naval Techs
4. Anti-Submarine Warfare - Your Cruisers prevent enemy subs from submerging or moving through them at a 1:1 ratio.
5. Battle Cruisers - Cruisers attack at 4 or less, but still defend at 3 or less. Additionally, cruisers may perform offshore bombardment at 3.
6. Q Ships - Transports defend at 1 or less.
Naval Aviation was too unrealistic, so dropped it in favor of Q Ships (armed transports).
Made Battle Crusiers 4/3/3 to account for their increased firepower, while taking into account their lesser armor when compared to dreadnoughts.
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Air Techs
7. Advanced Aviation - Fighters attack and defend at 3 or less.
8. AA Guns - Artillery may target fighters before combat begins, firing at 1. The number of dice that may be rolled is limited to the number of artillery available or the number of fighters present, whichever is smaller. A nation with AA Gun technology may use it against fighters in a bombing raid, provided they have artillery units present in the targeted territory.
9. Bombing - Fighters may perform one of the following bombing raids instead of engaging in combat:
A) Fighters within 2 spaces of an enemy capital may perform a strategic bombing raid. Each fighter in the raid rolls one die, deducting 1 IPC from the attacked powers treasury for each 1 rolled up to a maximum of the capital’s IPC value. Strategic bombing raids are resolved before other combats and the fighters acting as bombers play no role in any subsequent battle for air supremacy. Surviving fighters return to the same territory they launched the bombing raid from.
B) Fighters may perform a tactical bombing raid on an adjacent territory. Each fighter in the raids rolls one die, destroying 1 enemy unit for each 1 rolled. Tactical bombing raids are resolved after strategic bombing raids and before other combats and the fighters acting as bombers play no role in any subsequent battle for air supremacy. Surviving fighters return to the same territory they launched the bombing raid from.
In both strategic and tactical bombing raids, if the targeted territory has fighters present, one round of aerial combat is fought according to the system laid out on the battle board. Surviving fighters acting as bombers then roll for strategic or tactical damage.
Modified bombing to incorporate tactical bombing to make it worthwhile for those powers who won’t be getting within 2 spaces of an enemy capital. This way the bombers tech covers the whole range of WWI bombing from Handley Page and Muromets to Zeppelins.
Edited for clarification.
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