Response to a G1 Barbarossa

[BJCard]

If Germany attacks G1 concentrating on East Poland (of course doing the other normal attacks, France UK Navy) and subsequently buys Mech/Arm every turn to get to Moscow ASAP- there doesn’t seem to be anything Russia can do to stop them.

They could buy all Infantry, tactically retreat to Moscow, and hole up, which maybe the best course of action- but at that point Russia cannot counterattack anything significant (only a couple tanks, art, and its starting air).  How many territories between Poland and Moscow?  Thats how many turns it takes to get there.  You may be able to hold Moscow, but Germany will get everything else and Russia will be out of the game.
You cannot devote enough troops to take Iraq; you cannot send any help to China/India.

UK can still neuter the Italian fleet(I always do this- makes it all but impossible for Italy to get Cairo for a long while, if ever), but is still forced to buy mostly Inf in the UK in case Germany wants to Sealion. 
Even on the 2nd turn the UK cannot create/merge a landing fleet near the UK to set up a landing on UK3 because Germany will station its airforce in W Germany; Therefore the UK is now waiting for the US to turn up for help, which may be turn 4 at the earliest.

With this setup, the USA has to spend heavily in the Atlantic- giving Japan a much easier road to victory in the Pacific.  But what to buy as USA?  You cannot buy too many transports or the fleet will get killed by German counterattacks- therefore your landing force is likely 3 or 4 transports worth on turn 4- not much for the Germans to lose sleep over.

What do you guys think?  How to combat a G1,J2 or G1,J3?

[Jeff28]

First - don’t panic.

Consider scrambling with the UK if they bought all ground.

Buy inf and air and a few mechs with Russia and fall back to Moscow. Counterattack naked tanks if you got some lucky defense dice on G1.

Make sure your northern forces don’t get encircled and killed in Novograd, fall back immediately.

Stack up and calc. if you can hold a turn extra in Belarus or Bryansk along the way using air in defense as well. This can be invaluable.

Try to hold Bryansk and trade Urk. and W. Urk with air and inf so Germ can’t build factories. Or let Italy take them. Even better.

Grab Iraq and Italian Som./Tobruk with Russia for extra IPCs from the NO. Maybe use Persia infantry and a bomber to take Iraq or have the UK strafe it. Bomb the Novograd factory.

Use the UK to try to keep clear sz. 125 for Russia. Then Russia can use mechs to clear Archangel and keep the NO.

Retreat the Siberan infantry. If they get there in time, fine, if not, then they can block a tank stack towards Cairo or help China from behind.

Get enough of a fleet together as the allies to take Norway or Persia and build an airbase/factory combo on one of them and start shucking fighters direct to Russia.

Get the USA up and running in the Pacific the first two turns if it’s a J3.

Attack 97 with the UK and try to cripple Italy.

Just some thoughts. Perfectly played Axis with good dice is hard to beat, but usually they get a bad dice result here or there and then you build off that opening. Good luck!

[BJCard]

That’s definitely good advice, except we don’t have a Russian Bomber- our bids are usualy 8 or 9 for Allies.  How do you get Somalia/Tobruck with Russia?  That’s a lot of turns away.

[Young Grasshopper]

There is no defense!

MMMMWWWWAAAHHHAAAHHHAAA!

(Just Kidding) 😏

Your gonna lose 7 infantry and there will be lots of lone tanks on your front. You gotta take them out by moving in just the right amount in to take it, without leaving much there for the wave German of infantry and artillery. You won’t be able to stop Germany, that’s America and Britians responsibility, however, you need at least 1, preferably 2 attacks that will slow them down. Belarus is a great staging for this, not Leningrad.

[Jeff28]

I don’t like to buy all infantry.

But arts and tanks seem wasteful to me trading territory with the Germans, as they are killed in counterattacks. So I buy a little bit of air. A tac bomber and maybe a bomber usually on r2 and r3. Yes that’s 8 less inf in Russia, but I like to use them to take Iraq, bomb the Novo factory, and trade territories efficently with a plane and tac combo in 2 places. I feel like by the time the big battle arrives they have paid for themselves.

To get Italian Somlialand vs. a G1 barb:

Take North Persia r1 with 2 Cauc infantry.

Take Iraq r2 with a mech tank combo backed up by the 2 cauc inf and a tac or bomber.

Then R3 you load the surviving inf or mech on a UK tranny. Then r4 the tranny drops it off at Italian Somlialand. Meanwhile the tank goes to Egypt, and r5 grabs Tobruk and maybe Libya. To me, that’s up to +14 ipcs a turn by r5 that Germany can’t keep you from getting.

[Eqqman]

@Jeff28:

Meanwhile the tank goes to Egypt, and r5 grabs Tobruk and maybe Libya. To me, that’s up to +14 ipcs a turn by r5 that Germany can’t keep you from getting.

With the caveat that there isn’t an Italian stack in Alexandria staring you down in Egypt.

[Jeff28]

Well, what has UK been doing with all that air and men in Egypt on UK 1-4?

The Alex German fig and tacs stack tactic can’t work with a G1 barb because:

1. That air is going to be needed on the eastern front, not in Alex G2.

or

2. The UK scrambled hard when he DOWed on Russia G1 and knocked some planes out of the sky.

So you should be able to use the surviving air from the 96 and 97 battles and the egypt stack to clear Alex/Tobruk if he moves up.

[Eqqman]

@Jeff28:

So you should be able to use the surviving air from the 96 and 97 battles and the Egypt stack to clear Alex/Tobruk if he moves up.

I’m sure you’re right, I just wouldn’t take it as a given that these areas are clear.  If Italy doesn’t move up to Alexandria, then the UK either has to attack or strafe Tobruk to clean those men out of there.  In either case you have the risk of the UK ending up taking that area instead of Russia.  I don’t think you can take it as a guarantee (even in a G1 attack) that a lone Russian tank is going to be sweeping up North Africa.  Possible, but not certain.

[Gargantua]

I would laugh at a G1 Barbarossa.

There’s no way they are going to win.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Gargantua:

I would laugh at a G1 Barbarossa.

There’s no way they are going to win.

Are you going to enlighten us as to why?

[elzario]

@Young:

@Gargantua:

I would laugh at a G1 Barbarossa.

There’s no way they are going to win.

Are you going to enlighten us as to why?

I’d really like to hear the response… Only time I haven’t won using G1 Barbarossa was when I butchered my NCM G1 and G2, and even then I still got Moscow, just Italy wasn’t able to keep Cairo

[elevenjerk]

I want to hear it as well.  When I attacked G1 I won the first game with the axis (between me and my buddy) out of 9 games.

[Zhukov44]

No one has ever tried a G1 Barb on me before so I guess I’ll know what to think when I see it.

I laid out my doubts about G1 in the other thread (ie unacceptable risk and dubious long-term advantages)–so I won’t rehash them.

First off, if Axis always wins when you guys play, then Allies need to get a bid.  There are plenty of bid placements that could have a big impact, especially with the risky G1.

Basically what Russia wants to do (in response to Grasshopper’s version of G1) is

1. hold Novgorod and Arch as long as practicable without being outflanked.
2. Get into the Middle East and seize Iraq if practicable.  Then perhaps send a tank down into Africa to get extra cash.  Kinda silly, but we can chalk it up commie agitation in colonialist Africa, brought on by those aggressive Nazis.
3. Only make 1, maybe 2 trades per turn–don’t leave behind single infs and don’t try to fight 3-4 battles a turn.
4. Buy hella infantry.

What UK wants to do is

1. Scramble against risky German opens.  Any 110/111 deployment that doesn’t bring every possible unit to these fights is risky imho.
2. Play more aggressive than usual.  Destroy the main Italian fleet (attack 97), then try to be in position to finish off the Italian navy on UK2.  In some cases, think about an Egy or Per IC on UK2 (assuming a G2 all land unit buy).  This particular G1 threatens Sea Lion, so buy all inf uk1.  If G goes Sea Lion, London will likely fall (since all your planes will be dead from scramble or gone to the 97 attack…BUT it depends on the dices).  Either way the Soviets will be flush with cash and if they do get that Africa money they will be a monster.
3. Of course, if G1 is combined with J1, you may want to organize your combined fleet and invade France and Scandinavia as soon as you can, rather then building ICs in the Middle East.  It ought to be hard for Germany to keep its bombers on East Poland and also prevent invasion from the West.

[Cow]

Be aggressive with uk and usa when usa enters the war.  All usa has to do is bring subs to the med to convoy italy out of the game. so just a couple subs here n there.

[Cow]

you want to station naval at japan so you can fly figs through china to moscow if you need to.

[barney]

north or northwest persia