This topic has been moved to Axis & Allies Customizations.
HBG's Japanese Sets
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Okay, so now no one wants a “heavy” carrier for Japan? Or “heavy” carriers for any nation? Then why did I see so much talk about including the Midway class, which would be considered a “heavy” carrier since it was bigger and carried more planes than the Essex class, in a possible US expansion set?
It’s like you said, “options, options, options”. I know that there were no “heavy carriers” actually used in WW2, but for the game I would like the OPTION of developing one. What’s more, I think that option should be available for each nation, no matter how ludicrous it might have been in real life (e.g. super carriers for Germany, Italy or Russia).
That’s why I made my argument for a heavy tank for Japan, even though I got shot down in flames on that one. -
Just stamp an “H” on one of the 500 (slight exaggeration) Shinano that you already have and call it a day. I’m not trying to be flippant. It’s just that there are only going to be so few precious sculpts when it’s all said and done. They should be considered carefully and used on relevant, salient subjects; not wasted on units that had absolutely zero impact on history. From almost every possible point of view, a Shokaku sculpt is the way to go. Almost any possible Pacific carrier action scenario would include either or both the Zuikaku and Shokaku. No carrier action would include the Shinano. If you absolutely must have a Shinano for some purpose, the sculpt already exists in multitudes. And, as I believe was already pointed out, even if it had reached true operational status, it’s useful aircraft complement was actually LESS than many of the other Japanese carriers. It was big and ugly but that hardly qualifies it as a “heavy” carrier in a combat sense.
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Okay, so now no one wants a “heavy” carrier for Japan? Or “heavy” carriers for any nation? Then why did I see so much talk about including the Midway class, which would be considered a “heavy” carrier since it was bigger and carried more planes than the Essex class, in a possible US expansion set?
It’s like you said, “options, options, options”. I know that there were no “heavy carriers” actually used in WW2, but for the game I would like the OPTION of developing one. What’s more, I think that option should be available for each nation, no matter how ludicrous it might have been in real life (e.g. super carriers for Germany, Italy or Russia).
That’s why I made my argument for a heavy tank for Japan, even though I got shot down in flames on that one.I use the Japanese tigers from 41 as well as the Stalin tanks as heavy tanks for a sort of “lend-lease” unit. I guess hypothetically it was possible. It does give options. Before the german and Japanese expansions I used HE111s as transports for Japan and Germany. If you can get your hands on some the FMG SM 79 works well as a transport for Italy. Its slightly larger than the OOB SM79 from AAESE.
As a side note, it might be nice to get the German set in Italian Brown.
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@Pacific:
It’s just that there are only going to be so few precious sculpts when it’s all said and done. They should be considered carefully and used on relevant, salient subjects; not wasted on units that had absolutely zero impact on history.
While I see the merit in your overall points (and in general share your opinion), I think something can be said for the fact that no single Axis & Allies game is an exact exercise in historical happening. Most of them are from it.
By that I mean, that no game will play out exactly as World War II did. There are changes based on a players decisions and the roll of the dice. By playing the game we are engaging in a what-if history. Therefore, I believe it is applicable, if not preferable, that some machines which were being developed or not fully utilized at the end of the actual war be present for further development or use by the person playing the game. KNP7765 has made similar comments.
I am not advocating for inclusion of pieces like a the He-111z or helicopters or any of the really experimental stuff, but I don’t believe we need to be limited to only what saw significant combat use… or use in the fashion that it was utilized in WWII.
For example, HBG has included Me 262s in their German set. They are labeled as jet fighters and will almost certainly be used to represent those during gameplay. However, it is common knowledge that Me 262s were used by Hitler as fighter-bombers rather than their ideal role as interceptor aircraft. Should this mean that the Me 262s only be used as a light bomber, because that is how they really functioned in the war? Because that is how Hitler wanted to use them? … Obviously I don’t think so.
Similarly with Shinano: While I understand that, “The navy decided that Shinano would become a heavily armored support carrier, with only a small complement of aircraft and she was not intended to act as a fleet carrier despite her size; instead, she was to carry reserve aircraft, fuel and ordnance in support of carrier task forces.” (wikipedia) … There are mitigating historical factors that should be considered for Axis & Allies purposes.
(1) Shinano was never purpose built as an aircraft carrier, therefore the historical end result cannot be what the Japanese would have preferred in such a vessel. There would be no logical reason to invest in such a large yet underqualified design with the original intent for it to be just that.
(2) Following my previous line of reasoning, it would obviously be the A&A player’s intent to construct a large and capable fleet carrier when they decide to buy a Shinano during gameplay. Therefore, in the fictional A&A world, the Shinano would have been designed as a purpose built and capable fleet carrier.
The Shinano’s very attributes as the largest aircraft carrier of the war make this ship a logical choice as a fleet carrier unit (in my understanding, a fleet, aka heavy, carrier, or heavy anything, should be your biggest, best and most expensive). The reasoning for including it as such would be that in the A&A universe, the Shinano is treated as having been a top line fleet carrier.
On that point: are fleet carriers and heavy carriers different (from HBG’s perspective)? … If so, that would change the terminology for my argument.
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I have never agreed completely with what pieces came as OOB for each country anyway. In that situation, something more representative of history should be used, because there are not the number of different options such as those that come with ordering from HBG.
This is really a very different topic anyway, but I will continue:
Shinano for Japanese carrier? While the Japanese never settled on or were able to produce a large number of carriers from a single class, Shinano is a poor choice because it had no contribution to the war other than take 4 torpedoes from the USS Archer Fish.
- any of the Midway carriers would have been a better choice, though best would have been Shokaku.Wasp for US carrier? Again, a one time unit and not even a fleet carrier. Was around for one battle and went to the bottom.
- This should have been Essex, hands down. Though Yorktown-class would have been a more than fine alternative.P-38 for US fighter It fought in every theater and the design is quite distinctive, but I am sure when you think US WWII fighter (or anyone else is given that prompt), the first thought is not P-38 Lighting!
- Popular choice would probably be P-51 or F4F/F6F… both of which would have been better.**Ju-88 for German bomber ** Might have been one of the more produced and versatile German aircraft, but I would think this almost has to be the He-111, which was more iconic and could carry almost double the payload. This should have been more comparable to the B-17 and Halifax.
**Ju-87 for German fighter (A&A Revised) ** Revised was sort of the preliminary reboot, so I take this with a grain of salt, and on the surface really is not an awful or illogical pick, but they got it right when they switched to the Me 109.
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 - any of the Midway carriers would have been a better choice, though best would have been Shokaku.
I’m not sure, but do you mean “any of the Pearl Harbor carriers”? Shokaku and Zuikaku were there along side the other four, but they were both absent at Midway.
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Ju-87 for German fighter (A&A Revised) Revised was sort of the preliminary reboot, so I take this with a grain of salt, and on the surface really is not an awful or illogical pick, but they got it right when they switched to the Me 109.
I think they went with the tiny Stukas back then because 1> it had a very unique, distinctive shape and 2> it was a very iconic German WW2 plane. I think if you asked most people (not history or gaming buffs) to picture a WW2 German plane, most would picture the Stuka, although they may not know what type of plane it was or even what it did.
When I got my first copy of Revised, I was so thrilled that they were using sculpts that were unique to each nation that I didn’t even mind they were using a tiny dive bomber as a fighter. Now with the newer OOB sculpts, FMG and HBG pieces, I have become a lot more picky.
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@CWO:
� - any of the Midway carriers would have been a better choice, though best would have been Shokaku.
I’m not sure, but do you mean “any of the Pearl Harbor carriers”? Shokaku and Zuikaku were there along side the other four, but they were both absent at Midway.
Yes, good point. Though I did mean “any of the Midway carriers”, my caveat was that Shokaku (though not one of those) would have been the best choice. Although, you are right in that my statement could have been clearer had I chosen Pearl Harbor, since all 6 were there. :wink:
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Ju-87 for German fighter (A&A Revised) Revised was sort of the preliminary reboot, so I take this with a grain of salt, and on the surface really is not an awful or illogical pick, but they got it right when they switched to the Me 109.
I think they went with the tiny Stukas back then because 1> it had a very unique, distinctive shape and 2> it was a very iconic German WW2 plane. I think if you asked most people (not history or gaming buffs) to picture a WW2 German plane, most would picture the Stuka, although they may not know what type of plane it was or even what it did.
When I got my first copy of Revised, I was so thrilled that they were using sculpts that were unique to each nation that I didn’t even mind they were using a tiny dive bomber as a fighter. Now with the newer OOB sculpts, FMG and HBG pieces, I have become a lot more picky.
Yeah, you are certainly right. And I started playing A&A with Revised, so I did not know anything different. I never minded that fact either, until HBG and FMG started making pieces.
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Allright, don’t get used to this but… you guys ALL get your way. Coach must really like you guys. :-D
The JAPANESE EXPANSION SET (SET 2) just went on pre-order too. Go over there and give him your money. Especially since he pulled a few strings and got A SUB ADDED to the set. That’s right, we will be doing the I-400 so the Japanese can have a big sub too like the Germans. This set will be a bit behind the first one though. We still need to model the I-400 and get sculpts made etc etc. I can’t put an expected date on this set yet but it won’t be far.
http://www.historicalboardgaming.com/HBG-Battle-Pieces--WW2-Japan-Expansion-Set_p_812.html
And don’t count out that HBG Shinano yet. It’s still out there somewhere… won’t be in this set though.
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Allright, don’t get used to this but… you guys ALL get your way. Coach must really like you guys. :-D
The JAPANESE EXPANSION SET (SET 2) just went on pre-order too. Go over there and give him your money. Especially since he pulled a few strings and got A SUB ADDED to the set. That’s right, we will be doing the I-400 so the Japanese can have a big sub too like the Germans. This set will be a bit behind the first one though. We still need to model the I-400 and get sculpts made etc etc. I can’t put an expected date on this set yet but it won’t be far.
Wow… that is amazing. I didn’t even know demand was that high, but nobody can say you guys are not customer focused. Bravo again. Will be placing my order today. Thanks Variable/Coach.
And don’t count out that HBG Shinano yet. It’s still out there somewhere… won’t be in this set though.
While good to know, I would not be heartbroken if it never made it in. As always, your company’s solvency is always more important than my personal wishlist. Keep up the good work though.
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HBG,
––I’ve just pre-ordered three of your Japanese Expansion Sets and was wondering if you knew how soon after they arrive you will open then to INDIVIDUAL SALES as I’d like several more of certain units. Thanks for your time.
“Tall Paul”
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@Tall:
HBG,
––I’ve just pre-ordered three of your Japanese Expansion Sets and was wondering if you knew how soon after they arrive you will open then to INDIVIDUAL SALES as I’d like several more of certain units. Thanks for your time.
“Tall Paul”
We always try to have our sets available for individual sales from 4-6 weeks after the Pre-orders are completed.
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HBG,
@coachofmany:
@Tall:
HBG,
––I’ve just pre-ordered three of your Japanese Expansion Sets and was wondering if you knew how soon after they arrive you will open then to INDIVIDUAL SALES as I’d like several more of certain units. Thanks for your time.
“Tall Paul”We always try to have our sets available for individual sales from 4-6 weeks after the Pre-orders are completed.
––Thanks for the quick response. I’ll look forward to that. And Thanks again for all that you and your ‘gang’ have done for our A&A hobby.
“Tall Paul”
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HBG just posted these on FB:
Deutschland-class pocket battleship
F-86? Definitely US jet fighter
UK tank
German Infantry for next Axis minor set:
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Thats the German piece I have been waiting for. Next I hope he does Russian.USA and UK in winter garb. Looking Fan Freakintastic HBG
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Thats the German piece I have been waiting for. Next I hope he does Russian.USA and UK in winter garb. Looking Fan Freakintastic HBG
Agreed… very much the classic German uniform & kit. I was very happy to see this one. Hopefully the infantry sculpts turn out better now that they have switched to 3-D printing. Most of the previous sculpts were disproportionate… like the heads being too big. (Except for the US Marine w/ Thompson - one of my favorites.)
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I would like the infantry a little bigger in size too. They tend to be a bit smaller. Ceasar minis 1/72 is my fav scale on infantry scale.
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Thanks for the pictures Hoffmann.
Will be nice to have a Churchill and the detail on the German Infantryman is excellent.Is that really a Sabre? Pretty, except I always liked the smaller Mig 15.
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@wittmann:
Thanks for the pictures Hoffmann.
Will be nice to have a Churchill and the detail on the German Infantryman is excellent.Is that really a Sabre? Pretty, except I always liked the smaller Mig 15.
Maybe that will come in a future Russian Expansion set.
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