Russian Alpha 3 NO a Mistake?

[knp7765]

We house-ruled the Russian NO. They only get the 3 IPCs from Axis territories and Pro-Axis Neutral territories within mainland Europe. This also includes any Pro-Allied and Strict Neutrals (including Turkey) that the Axis conquer first. In other words, if Germany or Italy attack and conquer Turkey, Russia can take it back and get the 3 IPC bonus but if Russia attacks Turkey while they are still Neutral, Russia does NOT get the bonus.
This does NOT include Sicily, Sardinia, Crete, Eire, any of the Middle-East countries or African countries.
We also dabbled with lowering the bonus to 2 IPCs per territory thinking that 3 IPCs just gave Russia too much money, but we went back to 3 ICPs because in most of our games, it’s pretty hard for Russia to actually take territories outside their border. Usually Germany is pushing them too hard.

[Witt]

@Special Forces. Yes to all Pro-Axis, including the ones worth no IPCs.

[Guest]

First of Russian dont automaticly fall round 7, Anzac/British/US fighters reach Russia by then and so do 18inf. (basic allied strategy…)
Any Russian players that dont only buy inf,art (or only inf worst case senario) want to die, so they dont count.

Still Russia is underpowerd and out of position to stop Germany (and thats boring). I like Cows suggestion adding a Russian bomber in Moscow and editing the russian NO to be only for Europe and not for africa/middeleast.
Bid is about 4-10 now, but that bid usually goes to UK units to remove Italy from the game.

[ghr2]

Usually its round 6 when russia falls not 7

[Witt]

Do people still bid? We find Global well balanced now.
As for Italy, have not got going since Alpha 3, but that is fine as, sadly, i have got used to it.
And we were poor!

[ghr2]

usually the bid is 4-10 for dice allies, and 12-15 for low luck allies

[Cow]

If I am bidding I refuse to take allies for less than 8 for dice games.

[Guest]

Then ill bid 7 in our next game Cow, but I assume your not going crazy Pearl Harbour this time.  :-D

[Cow]

? I do Japan DOW1 the way my strategy guide says to do… unless you leave a bunch of russians for me to kill, I’ll DOW J2 if I can pick up a bunch of ruskies to kill on J1.

I do not know where you get this crazy pearl harbor thing from. Once in awhile for casual games, I do pearl harbor to new south wales. It has been awhile since I did something other than standard J1 openers.

Germany is the country I screw around with now.

[Guest]

Its just that I kicked you so badly with US because you did pearl harbour last time ;P

[Cow]

yeah i realized what i got to do when i do that strat, it has to be geared toward new south wales instead of india.

[WILD BILL]

I think London defense was boosted too much in Alpha 3.9 (Sea lion should remain viable in the right circumstances). We generally remove one inf, and one AA gun from UK to make them build ground units there. I will say that I like the new Royal Navy arrangement around England. It should still be a challenge for the Germans to pull off Sea lion, and keep on pace if/when they do.

As for the Russian bomber, we tried that once (seemed like they should have one). How it turned out was it ended up on England paired with the Russian sub to take out German blocker ships (sz 110) for the Western allies to attack Norway. This hardly seemed historical, so we haven’t given Russia a bomber since.

The Italian NO? Yeah we have house ruled it a couple ways too. Always only mainland Europe & Mid East (no African safari, or island hopping w/US or UK transports). We have allowed for the pro allied and strict neutrals if axis take them (or activate them) as mentioned in other posts. Normally 2 IPC for neutrals (depending on which ones are allowed), 3 IPCs for orig Ger/Ita.

We have also looked at splitting the Russian lend lease NO. Awarding 3 IPCs for the way it is in the rules, and 3 IPCs for a Mid east route. Allied control of of sz 80m, NW Persia, Persia, and Caucasus (sometimes also include Stalingrad). One game Italy got whacked early, so w/o much axis involvement in the Mid East it just seemed like a give-me for the southern route, and Russia also getting paid for those neutrals was a cash cow for them (balance). Just saying watch what you put in the game. By all means experiment, but balance is thrown off quite easily…

[Cow]

The axis are still a solid favorite to win, even with an 8-12 bid for allies I’d still prefer the axis. Russia making a bigger income is how it is supposed to be after doing sea lion, the allies need something going for them with uk gone like that.

[WILD BILL]

The Russians being able to maintain, and expand in a Sea lion game yes. That’s why we have also included both the pro allied and strict neutrals if the Russians liberate them from the Axis. What is happening though even in games that are Barbarossa is the Russians are replacing lost income taken by the Germans & Japanese with a small forces in N Africa. The Western allies are leaving some of these territories for them in some cases which just seems wrong IMO. If the Russians were in danger of loosing Moscow, they surly wouldn’t be sending forces away from the “Motherland”, it would be all hands on deck.

[Cow]

historically russians did do stuff in the middleeast/africa… I don’t see why they should not get a bonus, besides it is only 14 ipc a turn, which is not a big deal. look at germany’s income without even advancing on russia… it is stupid.

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

14 IPC is a HUGE deal, are you trying to make a joke? 4 more land units PER TURN doesn’t make a big difference?

[Guest]

I look at it as Russia getting the NO for Persia and Iraq represents the middle east lend lease route.  Finland and Eastern Europe states also make historical sense.  The gamey part is when Russian mobile units drive down into Africa.  For the game, it does give Italy a good reason to strive for Egypt even if they already have Gibraltar/Greece/South France, perhaps timing a landing in Egypt/Transjordan on the turn when the Russians are there so they can kill them.  Still the African safari feels fake.  It would be better if the NO included the phrase “….in mainland Europe or the Middle East”.

The NO works great in a sealion game, because Russia becomes almost unbreakable if they get Finland, Poland, Hungary, Rumania for a turn or 2, and doesn’t try to hold them but spends all that money on infantry and saves what they don’t spend for later on.  In that case it’s up to Japan to do something tricky in the Pacific or go hardcore to Stalingrad with Italy somehow kept strong enough to hold Egypt (not easy).

[WILD BILL]

I agree w/Vance, German tanks in N Africa is cool, they should and do get an NO for that (Egypt), but Russian mech or tanks?. The Lend lease angle for the Russians getting the Mid East countries is something I hadn’t thought about, but makes sense. The rules don’t allow them to get the NO for Persia (only the territory value), but they would get a bonus for Iraq so its all good. If the Russians hold those two countries they get 7 IPCs, and deprive the axis from the Oil bonuses.

Like I said we have experimented with the Russians getting an NO for both pro allied and even the strict neutrals (under certain circumstances), but don’t really have enough play time to give an honest opinion. We have stuck to territories in mainland Europe & Mid East for quite some time (which most ppl seem to support), and am hopeful that a change may come in the upcoming revisions as they will have had time to evaluate it.

[Guest]

Sorry, got confused about my Persias.  :-)

Maybe once Gargantua’s online global tournament winds up we can look and see how many games have the Russians going down to Africa.

[Canuck12]

I’m cool with the Russians in the mid-east, it’s a little weird in Africa but so be it. It gives Russia some extra income, which is ahistorically low in my opinion. So you can trade one historical falsehood for another.

I say: Give them back the Russian battleship in the Baltic to balance things out. I so miss that thing!