With that sort of German power projection is buying an IC for Canada a reasonable UK move?
So they can build up a fleet with the Americans in the Atlantic?
That might work if you go with a KGF strategy - both our games were KJF mainly because of the exposed VC in Hawaii….
MM
So, last night was able to play my 2nd official game of AA42-2E. Now - we are playing using the FTF tournament rules that are used at Origins and GenCon - 5 hour game - most VC at the end of the time wins - unless one side gets the OOB victory conditions. We also used a chess clock to time our moves and this added a sense of urgency.
Russians started out well with 2 attacks on the Germans with minimal losses. Germany responded by eliminating the UK BB/Trans, the Us DD and 2 Trans and bought a carrier and destroyer and men (more on that later).
UK put the IC in India to immediate use buying 3 armor - but did not have enough money to even think about a fleet. Rather, they decided to buy a few extra inf to make sure Germany did not get too frisky. UK attacked the Japan fleet - and lost - offsetting the gains Russia made. They did take Borneo and sank the German BB and Transport.
Japan decided to build a complex in Manchuria, and attacked all 4 US territories- while not taking them all, they did kill the US fighter. They also bought a 3rd carrier. The US consolidated its pretty significant fleet off the West Coast and added to it a ton.
And so it went - the Germans kept adding subs and planes and men - the UK was never able to get enough cash to put a decent fleet into the water without it most likely getting killed. The US had a huge fleet and moved out on turn 3 - but Japan was up to the task with a 4th carrier group.
Eventually, Germany took Karelia - as Russia could not get units there (2 spaces between Moscow and Karelia). Axis slowly pushed forward into Russian territory and also into Africa. UK had a large number of units in India, but needed to send some back to Russia - which blunted their ability to press Japan. On turn 5, US decided it was now or never on the attack of the Japan fleet - but was soundly beaten. At that point the Allies sued for peace.
Some observations:
- The UK attack on the Japan fleet in East Indies is viable - I think they have an advantage there - maybe 60-40. BUT - it is certainly a high risk, high reward attack and some may not want to risk that so early in the game. If it goes well, its great - if UK breaks even or loses, it can be a problem.
Odds are 60 something as you mention and I haven’t played yet but if you lose…
- I see a German carrier (and destroyer) being a standard purchase on round 1. In fact, I will make the statement that if done, the UK may never have a legit shot at getting a fleet in the water. There is not a spot on the board where the UK can drop a fleet where the Germans cannot get at it. By putting the carrier in the water, adding subs and a fighter here and there, the UK just cannot build a fleet - unless they save for 1-2 turns and buy next to nothing for India.
I’ve had this discussion on another thread, the UK merely needs to buy 2 fighters each round, use the rest on India, and deal with the German surface ships first. Afterwards the leftover fighters can go to Moscow or where needed.
The UK can also build a destroyer on SZ6 to block German ships and subs from reaching SZ7.
Yes, they can buy a blocker, but again, Germany can have a large number of planes available. What it really causes is a situation where if the UK wants to spend money in India, they just cannot reasonably get a fleet out until later in the game.
As for getting the ftrs to Russia - yes- except that ftrs from the UK cannot get to Moscow in one turn. They need to land somewhere on the way first….
MM
So how does this compare to the original 1942? Are any of these issues present there? What do you not like about 1942 that this game addresses? What do you not like about Second Edition that 1942 does better?
How did it pan out in Africa? I know that usually in Revised and 1942 1st Ed that taking Egypt first turn has been pretty standard. Maybe Germany could land more units in Libya and proceed to attack on G2? Thoughts? I haven’t had time to play mine yet.
Both my friend and I cannot see much hope for the Allies either. Unfortunately could only play one round, but Germany eliminating all but 1 UK ship on Atlantic side and Egypt about to be captured on G2 and Rest of Africa looking lost with little US help available is depressing for Allies. (Sank US Atlantic Fleet.) Japan, despite losing EI fleet, can take 4 territories killing all 6 Chinese and build a useful Factory too. Russia has to send units East.
Not sure I can see how Allies with only 20-25 IP advantage to begin with can catch up with the Axis before their Victory conditions are met.
Really wish we could have played more, but had a family function.
@wittman:
Both my friend and I cannot see much hope for the Allies either. Unfortunately could only play one round, but Germany eliminating all but 1 UK ship on Atlantic side and Egypt about to be captured on G2 and Rest of Africa looking lost with little US help available is depressing for Allies. (Sank US Atlantic Fleet.)
The standard G1 moves for 1st Edition haven’t changed much - usually Germany could take Egypt on G1 and only sink 1 Allied fleet in the Atlantic. Now it is very risky to try Egypt and it can sink 2 Allied fleets. May look depressing but to me it doesn’t mean that the game is lost for Allies.
Japan, despite losing EI fleet, can take 4 territories killing all 6 Chinese and build a useful Factory too. Russia has to send units East.
The real question is really if Japan can stand on the long run against an Indian IC and a US KJF in place. Russia does not need to send units East - Buryatia, SFE and Yakut are a waste to try to recapture and the main advantage of Russia is that it can trade space over time, specially now on Asia since it takes a little longer to reach Moscow from that side.
Not sure I can see how Allies with only 20-25 IP advantage to begin with can catch up with the Axis before their Victory conditions are met.
The key cities now are Leningrad, Calcutta and Moscow/Honolulu. If the US goes KJF it would seem unlikely that Japan can take Hawaii so the Axis will have to switch to taking Moscow. If the US does not go KJF then the Axis simply need to secure Leningrad, Calcutta and Honolulu. In that case the key is really to prevent the capture of the 3rd city by the Allies.
Have decided to keep Jap fleet by Asia and not venture further East than Phillipines, which looks like US’ 2nd move.
By Russia going East I meant he has sent Kazak, Novo and Eventi’s 4 into China, possibl anticipating Chinese void. I made my IC in EI and am regretting not doing Manchuria.( Who is ever happy eh?)Am hoping to finish game in 3 weeks when my friend next works in Hereford.
Thanks for heads up.
Germany attacking Egypt on round 1 is not really an option anymore. Not only does the UK have an extra unit there, Germany cannot send anything but the bomber to help. Yes, they can bring over 2 units on the transport - kill the defending DD (though, no fighters can reach) and attack. It is not as good a chance as it was before.
Germany can easily kill off the UK fleet (if you call it that) with the BB, can hit the US and take out those 2 trannies and also hit the Cruiser in the Med. When I played this weekend, we decided to use 2 units and the BB to hit Russia - but - it might have been better to have then hit the DD and land units in Trans-Jordan.
I played Japan and put a complex in Manchuria. After taking out all of the US forces in China (which, if you forgo an attack on Hawaii is pretty straightforward), you then have 3 tanks a turn running through the middle of Asia causing problems for Russia very quickly.
Again - I am not coming to any conclusions yet - just in two games so far, under the tournament conditions used, the Allies seem to have an uphill battle on their hands.
MM
We just finished a game that went almost exactly how yours did. Russia did a a couple small battles. Germany kills the UK Atlantic BB, the US dd/tpts and built a carrier for the Baltic. The UK also tried to kill off the Japanese DIE fleet, and failed miserably. All UK units lost, and Japan kept the carrier & dinged bb. UK losing that much stuff round1 on the Pac side set-up very well for the axis, and the allies lost ground all game (Asia & Africa seemed like mere speed bumps). The US seemed under powered to compete w/Japan (with virtually no help from UK) even though they spent pretty exclusive Pac side. In a couple rounds the Chinese (US) were gone, India and Egypt fell. Japan was making about 40+, and Germany got into the 50’s. Early on Germany took Kar, then hit Moscow, but pulled out when inf stacks were depleted (Moscow would have held). Germany then took Caucasus as Japan started grabbing Russian land near Asia & the Mid east. Germany got its second wind (even though the Brits did some nuance landing parties in W Europe and crushed Moscow a couple turns later by reinforcing Kar through the Baltic w/3 tpts. The UK did build enough air power to kill the German Baltic fleet, but by that time the damage was done (Germany should have built another dd, but missed it). I think the game went about 6 rounds or so, and allies pulled the plug.
Well, for Russia, there are a couple of problems - first is that fighters from the UK cannot make it to Moscow directly - so gone are the ideas of shutling fighters over easily. Secondly, since Karelia is not next to Moscow, infantry stacks in Moscow are no help in taking back Karelia. Further - with a carrier purchase (and a tranny on round 2), Germany can easily funnel units into Karelia - Germany is also 2 spots away so tanks can blitz right on up. In my mind, it makes it very hard for Russia to hold onto Karelia - especially if the UK offers no help in that part of the map.
MM
I bought 2DD on G1 so as to prevent UK killing my Med Battleship and now look too powerful there. UK took advantage and built 2DD to join his Canadian one after sinking my Baltic fleet.
Now on UK2 he can build a 2nd TT and land in Norway or Belgium(know which I’d do).
I think my obsession of helping keep Italy alive in Global clouded my decision and I am going to Pay for it.
Otherwise, I think Axis look good to win most games.
I think adding a couple of lend lease destroyers to the british home fleet would be a good bid. One at the very least.
Interesting stuff.
Yeah,
That was my thought as well. UK needs to get a minimum bid of 8 to by a destroyer in the hopes of even having a chance. Other wise, the UK should never have a fleet to do anything in the Atlantic. And the US gets its units killed by the two subs floating out in the Atlantic as well, then they come back and kill the remained of the UK fleet on T2…
The lack of scramble really hurts the UK.
I know we have a lot of experienced players, but isn’t it too early to be calling for a bid…I’m hoping to get my first crack at this weekend, but in the words of Gul Dukat  “…I will find a way to defeat it. There is no dilemma that cannot be solved by a disciplined, Cardassian mind.”
Oh, I agree with you in general - I am far from declaring anything.
I am just saying that with GenCon in 2 weeks, my guess is that an Allied bid will be the norm if anyone has played and seen some of the initial conclusions we have…
I will still want to play several more times with no bid - I enjoy a challenge!
MM
Concerning a bid:
We are starting game two, and I’ll try allies this time (axis sure was fun LOL). There is normally a bit of a learning curve for the allies. I think I will try to weather the storm and see what happens before I jump on the bid or swamping units around band wagon. I can see the point about getting more info for the tourney though.
To the German navy points:
It’s strange because as Germany I felt obligated to buy the carrier (or a couple destroyers) to beef up the Baltic fleet. The RAF can hit the Baltic (sz5) from England, and the BB in the Med is under a lot of pressure where ever it goes. I ended up buying a carrier G1 for the Baltic, then sprinkled in a dd and couple tpts later to keep the UK honest, and to keep pace w/English air power. G1 I used the Med BB to kill the UK cruiser in sz14 and also took Gib so the UK ftrs couldn’t attack me in sz14, only the Egypt dd & bmr can reach (your probably still going to lose it, but maybe you take a couple units down with you). It would be hard to save both German fleets (expensive), and you really need to kill at least one of the UK ships in the Med IMO. Building in the Baltic seemed to help take down Russia, but I could see the importance of a Med fleet too.
BTW the US sitting there w/dd & 2 tpts off E US in range of both subs is just Way To Funny (WTF). You have to hit that s**t (probably with both subs). I’m ok with the UK losing yet another BB in the Atlantic G1 (oh big surprise) but the mini US fleet going down feels cheap.
