Except early Red Navy build is a wasted buy. The only reason why I would do it is if Germany went all in on Sea Lion and it failed so your army is equal to theirs and even then the Kreigsmarine is never a serious threat so unless USSR red navy is going for Italy or he is going to send them against Japan, it was a stupid buy.
Japan sacking Egypt
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Do it if you feel happy. I just cannot.
I am sure one Admiral suggested it, but it was shouted down as ridiculous because Japan had everything they wanted/needed right in front of them.
Their war was not Germany’s. Irony of WW2 is that it could have been 2 separate ones. Hitler made it a world war by needlessly, and erroneously, declaring war on the US after Pearl Harbour.
But that is history.
This is a game. A bloody good one. -
@Wittman: You’re exactly right, it’s a game. And the proposed strategy is permitted by the rules of the game (i.e., it doesn’t count as ‘cheating’). So you shouldn’t feel guilty for trying out ahistorical strategies.
In fact, every game that is played is ahistorical in some sense (e.g., doesn’t rigidly comply to the order of battle, or the types of casualties, etc.), so your objection is an unprincipled one (i.e., if you can’t stand the idea of using this strategy, you oughtn’t be able to stand the idea of playing the game at all).
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Maybe I lack imagination. Am not bothered if I am thought strange. Have said I am happy to lose. I play.
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I actually employed this in a game. And Axis won.
I got MiddleEast + Egypt and then africa IPCs with Japan. Bought everyturn 10inf in Japan.
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@ Noll
Kuroshima
google kuroshima admiral
scroll down to war and remembrance
click that and it 'll take you thereI don’t know where wouk got his information,but his other comments on the history of the war seem factual
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The Obvious counter to this strategy is USA going full Atlantic or Bomber Happy.
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well allies kinda have to liberate egypt or they lose when russia / volgograd is taken. So it is pretty obvious what happens next.
usa goes full atlantic and uses his right now pacific fleet to convoy japan.
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Some time ago Young Grasshopper detailed his account of the Japanese Navy taking Egypt (around J5) combined with a G1 Barbarossa. It is a good read and details actual game moves and his opponent’s reactions rather than just speculating outcome. Japan takes India J4 and then progresses into Med. He builds about 10 infantry a turn in Japan to protect homeland rather than invest so much in Korea. The thread is called: G1 Attack on Russia.
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yeah well the allies only have 1 play when that happens. use the pacific naval that is there right now to take back dutch islands and convoy japan. buy full atlantic with usa (maybe some subs in the pacific for convoying).
it is not a big deal. the convoy system and all that is supposed to prevent japan from leaving the pacific. Also the high value of the islands is brutal.
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@Cow:
yeah well the allies only have 1 play when that happens. use the pacific naval that is there right now to take back dutch islands and convoy japan. buy full atlantic with usa (maybe some subs in the pacific for convoying).
it is not a big deal. the convoy system and all that is supposed to prevent japan from leaving the pacific. Also the high value of the islands is brutal.
You have also now to confront the full Japanese Navy in the Medi.
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It will certainly keep Italy in the game, which is no bad thing for we Italians.
I will bear it in mind and may spring it as a surprise to a wily opponent.
Did not mean to sound rudely dismissive. -
You don’t have to arrive at Egypt until around the time the Moscow is going to fall, you can take your time getting there.
I would entirely skip Calcutta in the process as it is irrelevant in the bigger scheme.
Convoying Japan is only 8 IPC. Much of that is made up via taking China early. Later, income becomes irrelevant for Japan as you start taking African economies at will and the 8 IPC convoy in SZ6 becomes a waste for the USA.
You want to keep the USA in the Pacific as long as possible, meaning at least 4-5 rounds, possibly as deep in as Queensland or even the Philippines / Caroline Islands works. This buys you the rounds you need to get around India and into the Med. This renders the early US purchases as misplaced and out of position.
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Wow, Kuroshima was the same admiral who tried to over-rule Admiral Nagumo, so that a second wave of fighters would go out at pearl, looking for the Aircraft Carriers.
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Sounds like a good surprise stratagy and could work along side a capture of the middle east to prevent the ‘spread of communism’ national objective and a successful FAST Wehrmacht campagin in the Soviet Union.
On the flipside Japan has completly surrenderd the Pacific to the US and Anzac, which in turn allows for a quicker Atlantic build up by the US and Britian.
Again depends on the strength of the players….
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J1 and J2 you keep the majority of your starting fleet in SZ6 (exception being TT shuttles).
The remaining fleet in all other SZ’s stages in SZ36 to cover the TT movement - its enough to keep India from attacking a tasty TT flotilla.
US1 places units, consolidates off Hawaii (still a threat of 3 TT with 3 Inf/Art) and 2/3 of the Jap fleet capable of reaching it.
J2 you move your J1 purchased TT flotilla to SZ36 and keep the pressure on China, buy 3 TT, 3 Inf, 3 Art and place in SZ6.
US2 likely has 1 CV and 2 BB that can move to Hawaii - its unlikely that with J2 fleet still in range of Hawaii that the whole fleet moves to Queensland - so US consolidates off Hawaii and has a fleet that rivals the Japanese fleet in SZ6 now.
J3 Buy a NB for Hainan and put up some Infantry in Japan. Move the entire Japanese fleet from SZ6 to SZ36, move the SZ36 fleet off Malaya and use the empty TT to pick up the 2 Inf from Siam.
US3 gets foggy at this point - with no DOW by Japan US has to wonder why the wait - likely J5 KIF, so it moves its fleet to Queensland in order to trap the Japanese fleet after KIF. It could stay in Hawaii, but realistically the US won’t be able to take Tokyo because the J4 purchase could be 10 Inf and the US just cannot field enough units to land and take Japan - Korea is still a possibility however if Russia didn’t DOW. Potential Convoy could also occur (this is good for Japan - puts the US fleet too far behind to catch up). Whatever the US does, the Japanese fleet will stay 1 step ahead at this point.
J4 is max infantry defense if the fleet did not move off Hawaii. If the Fleet is in Queensland I suggest a 2-1 ratio of Bombers to SS - Bombers can fly into China and skip across Calcutta quickly and the SS en masse will create issues for a US fleet approaching from the south. Move the advance fleet from Malaya to India, and the heavy fleet from SZ36 to India. DO NOT LAND ON CALCUTTA
US4 is now at war, and can use the Queensland NB to reach Malaya or Sumatra but not where the Japanese fleet is. Assuming the US fleet moves to Malaya, it has a 3 space move next turn - so the US moves there.
J5 Japan moves the entire fleet with TT off of Iraq in SZ80 (I think). Either NCM or attack it depending on what the Allies toyed around with.
US5 at this point likely has the beginnings of a landing fleet for Europe materializing, and the US fleet in the Pacific races after the Japanese fleet - your plan is in full effect but the US fleet will be a turn behind reaching Egypt before Japan does - and it doesn’t have many units to try to retake it from the ground units that land on J6.
So J6 includes the landing on Egypt. You’ll have to decide what to do with the 6 aircraft on your CV at this point - if Italy has been successful at harassing the UK there may not be much left. Its even possible you will just be reinforcing it.
Anyways, there is a summation. You can figure out how to get all those Aircraft in China into the Middle East, it isn’t hard as long as you hold Hunan and are able to take Eastern Persia when you take Iraq.
I find it hard to realistically stop this move, and it is a slight cop-out by bringing Japan clear across the world to end the Europe war with a BOOM.
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Ok. But why does USA have to chase after the japan fleet again? If you take egypt with japan he can’t cross the canal anyway. He’d probably keep that fleet in the pacific to convoy japan / hold / take dutch islands. Thus insuring he doesn’t have to spend money in the pacific.
Also keeping your fleet in sz 6 is strange, most player just block you from taking hawaii with a dd and move to queensland and shuck hollywood to hawaii. it also means you won’t get egypt till J6-J7.
Germany can rush moscow out of the game at the same round and have volgograd.
Also if you don’t have enough to take and hold calcutta… india could just leave and go west and try to liberate egypt.
The trick is concealing your intentions, because if india abandons itself soon enough to move toward egypt… then you aren’t holding egypt.
plus taking russia might not materialize on G7, india’s fighters and anzac fighters will be in the mix. the 6 inf from siberia usually in the mix.
Usually if allies don’t see DOW from Japan on J2, usa prepares to invade italy and starts building the atlantic up usa2.
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@Cow:
Ok. But why does USA have to chase after the japan fleet again? If you take egypt with japan he can’t cross the canal anyway. He’d probably keep that fleet in the pacific to convoy japan / hold / take dutch islands. Thus insuring he doesn’t have to spend money in the pacific.
-I was under the impression the US cannot take any DEI unless they were axis controlled
-Japan doesn’t care about SZ6 convoy in this strategy. In fact its welcomed. This is not a long term play, but a game ender before the 10th round, preferably G8 at the latest.Also keeping your fleet in sz 6 is strange, most player just block you from taking hawaii with a dd and move to queensland and shuck hollywood to hawaii. it also means you won’t get egypt till J6-J7.
-Japan is in no rush to get to Egypt so early as to defend it from multiple Allied counters. In fact, Japan wants to take it +/- 1 round of Moscow falling.
-Keeping a fleet in SZ6 with 3 TT with Inf/Art keeps the US fleet in the Pacific honest. Even without a DOW would you evacuate Hawaii before US3 with 2/3 of the Japanese fleet in SZ6? Alaska is another potential option with the US having issues to address.Germany can rush moscow out of the game at the same round and have volgograd.
-The point is to take Egypt right around the same time Moscow falls - thus giving the Allies a single round to reclaim a VC and extend the game.Also if you don’t have enough to take and hold calcutta… india could just leave and go west and try to liberate egypt.
-How does India reach Egypt in time which includes breaking through a Japanese fleet to land reinforcements? Via ground India is what, 2 or 3 rounds by armor?The trick is concealing your intentions, because if india abandons itself soon enough to move toward egypt… then you aren’t holding egypt.
-Would you abandon Calcutta on Round 4 with 8 TT worth of Japanese units sitting off its shores?plus taking russia might not materialize on G7, india’s fighters and anzac fighters will be in the mix. the 6 inf from siberia usually in the mix.
Usually if allies don’t see DOW from Japan on J2, usa prepares to invade italy and starts building the atlantic up usa2.
-Again, would you as a US player stop your Pacific builds with the majority of the Japanese fleet within striking distance of Hawaii and or Alaska? -
alaska is a non issue. can block hawaii with a dd.
us cannot take DEI if it is dutch, but anzac and uk pac already did, you did not DOW yet, of course they took all the dutch islands round 2.
Keeping japan in sz 6 doesn’t keep us honest. it is away from your objectives. It is the exact opposite. America is not afraid of losing alaska. 16 units is not going to take and hold hollywood. usa can spam ground forces after the fact, the hell.
block hawaii with a dd and done. don’t worry about pacific. No J1 or J2 dow = you are not trying to win in the pacific.
take fleet to queensland and screw making pacific ships. If japan doesn’t want to be near the cash islands, he won’t make enough to win in the pacific. america won’t need to be there.
Would I abandon calcutta, I’d have enough to defend it considering the 20+ income it makes, but I’d move stuff out for sure.
If you are away from your money and not declaring war, that is a big green light for usa to go full atlantic.
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plus there are enough dds laying around in the pacific to block your naval from hitting calcutta, in which case calcutta moves.if you telegraph what you are doing like this, of course america is going to try and drop on italy. Egypt can be well defended too you know.
lots of people drop egypt minor and build off south africa and egypt with uk, instead of making a silly london fleet.
~Don’t get me wrong, the strategy works the first time around usually, but after that people figure it out easy.
but staying in sz6 is absolutely silly, you aren’t fooling anyone. At least if you are near the money, usa might think you are trying with japan.
Anyway, most people don’t buy much in the pacific when there is no J2 DOW, regardless of where your naval is. you might see 3 units of sub/dd mix, but that is about it.
sometimes on USA 2 if no J2 dow happened and Japan doesn’t look like he will dow… I pull the USA 1 buy off west usa into the atlantic. get hawaii to queensland and taunt.
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