How should I bomb UK?

[Omega1759]

I’m considering taking a tac out of 110 to beef up 112 and reduce its variablility (since willing to gamble that UK player won’t scramble). 112 has a 50% chance of wiping out the 2 cruisers in 1 round, in which case the worst case scenario is losing the sub with 1 chance out of 4, provided the sub did not hit (no biggie). Chance of a total miss on first round is about 10%, in which case the cruiser should hit 1 on average. On next round, again, 50% chance of wiping out completely, if not trouble starts!

Have flexibility to retreat from 110 if rolls are bad (although would prefer to kill that battleship instead of giving UK opportunity to repair it!)

Another option is to reinforce 112 with the Polish Tactical heading for France but that seems to hurt that battle too much…

Comments / suggestions?

[Guest]

So if I were to buy my 2 bombers and 1 sub on G1, I could wipe out UK’s navy on G2 similar to Omega’s suggestion.  I could then use those bombers to strategically bomb UK and to attack Leningrad in later turns.

[Guest]

So the consensus is don’t bomb them on G1 and use the bombers to help finish off the UK navy on G2 wherever they assemble their fleet.  But suppose UK doesn’t put all their ships in one basket.  They could move the cruiser from 91 and the destroyer+transport from 109 to 106 plus a fighter to New Br106 in order to put those 3 ships safely out of range and also deal with my sub(s).  They could also move the battleship and destroyer from 111 to 119 to cover that convoy route and also keep them out of range of my fighters and tactical bombers.  In that scenario do you think I should use the bombers against 119 or for strategic bombing?  If the answer is strategic bombing, then which airbase(s) and/or industrial complex?  Would it be preferable to take out the 119 destroyer and slip a sub or 2 into 109?

[Guest]

Just as an afterthought, suppose I had gone ahead and bombed the London naval base on G1.  Chances are good that I would have lost 1 plane to interceptors and AA, but now on UK2 they couldn’t get my sub(s) in 106 because the destroyer would be out of range.

[Omega1759]

@Vance:

So the consensus is don’t bomb them on G1 and use the bombers to help finish off the UK navy on G2 wherever they assemble their fleet.  But suppose UK doesn’t put all their ships in one basket.  They could move the cruiser from 91 and the destroyer+transport from 109 to 106 plus a fighter to New Br106 in order to put those 3 ships safely out of range and also deal with my sub(s).  They could also move the battleship and destroyer from 111 to 119 to cover that convoy route and also keep them out of range of my fighters and tactical bombers.  In that scenario do you think I should use the bombers against 119 or for strategic bombing?  If the answer is strategic bombing, then which airbase(s) and/or industrial complex?  Would it be preferable to take out the 119 destroyer and slip a sub or 2 into 109?

In this case you can sink the fleet in 119 with planes from your carrier, bomber and a couple of subs left around the UK. You can occupy 109 with your surface fleet and stick around. The UK at this point needs to buy land units because otherwise we can go sealion pretty quickly!

If you lose 106, nothing you can do about that, but that makes a sealion more likely to happen.

[Guest]

So the German battleship, cruiser, aircraft carrier with 2 fighters, and 2 subs can sit in 109 costing the UK 6IPCs per turn for a long time, and it would be costly to remove them.

[Guest]

Well 2 or 3 turns would be 18IPCs lost to UK if 2 subs were parked in 109, but I think I still like the idea of going with bombers instead of the carrier.  They can strategically bomb UK on G2 and they can also be used against the USSR: first to strategic bomb Leningrad on G3, and then to tactically bomb Leningrad on G4 along with the armies from Finland, Baltic states, and transports.  The bombers are much more useful I think.

[Omega1759]

@Vance:

So the German battleship, cruiser, aircraft carrier with 2 fighters, and 2 subs can sit in 109 costing the UK 6IPCs per turn for a long time, and it would be costly to remove them.

With that equipment in 109 you would take 8 IPC from UK.

109 is in range of 91. Let the American come to you and take them apart when they come of 91. Then, come back to 109, if possible.

[Guest]

Do the surface ships convoy raid too?  I thought it was just subs.

[Omega1759]

@Vance:

Do the surface ships convoy raid too?  I thought it was just subs.

It’s one per surface warship according to rules OOB. Don’t know if that has changed…

[Ruanek]

@Omega1759:

@Vance:

Do the surface ships convoy raid too?  I thought it was just subs.

It’s one per surface warship according to rules OOB. Don’t know if that has changed…

No, it’s the same.  1 per surface ship, 2 per sub, 3 per German sub.

[Guest]

OK here is another idea for bombing UK on G1.  Suppose I want to take out their destroyers so that my subs have an easier time and/or UK spends a lot of money replacing them.  I also want to keep the ships in 110 out of the Mediterranean.  Maybe I could try this:

2 subs to 106
1 sub, Norway fighter, 2 West Germany fighters and 1 tactical bomber to 111
1 sub, battleship, cruiser, Germany tactical bomber to 112
1 sub and Holland fighter to 109
Germany bomber and 2 West Germany tactical bombers hit UK naval base and possibly factory if all 3 planes get through. Note that UK must decide whether to use 3 fighters as interceptors (which hit on 2) or scramblers (which hit on 4).  If the naval base is made inoperable the ships in 110 cannot reach sea zone 92 on UK1 and Italy may well have taken Gibraltar by UK2.
All land units in range attack France, Yugoslavia, Finland, Bulgaria.
Poland tactical bomber and Slovakia fighter help out in Yugoslavia en route to S Italy.

The battles in 109 and 111 might only be 1 round in order to take out the destroyers but limit risk of losing planes.  Hopefully we just lose subs we can afford but they lose destroyers they cannot afford to replace.

[Omega1759]

@Vance:

OK here is another idea for bombing UK on G1.  Suppose I want to take out their destroyers so that my subs have an easier time and/or UK spends a lot of money replacing them.  I also want to keep the ships in 110 out of the Mediterranean.  Maybe I could try this:

2 subs to 106
1 sub, Norway fighter, 2 West Germany fighters and 1 tactical bomber to 111
1 sub, battleship, cruiser, Germany tactical bomber to 112
1 sub and Holland fighter to 109
Germany bomber and 2 West Germany tactical bombers hit UK naval base and possibly factory if all 3 planes get through. Note that UK must decide whether to use 3 fighters as interceptors (which hit on 2) or scramblers (which hit on 4).  If the naval base is made inoperable the ships in 110 cannot reach sea zone 92 on UK1 and Italy may well have taken Gibraltar by UK2.
All land units in range attack France, Yugoslavia, Finland, Bulgaria.
Poland tactical bomber and Slovakia fighter help out in Yugoslavia en route to S Italy.

The battles in 109 and 111 might only be 1 round in order to take out the destroyers but limit risk of losing planes.  Hopefully we just lose subs we can afford but they lose destroyers they cannot afford to replace.

Bad idea, your 109 attack will be defeated easily with scrambles

[Omega1759]

Thanks for the comments, I think I decided I would move one of the tacs from 110 to 112. Would you scramble?

@mantlefan:

Thanks for taking the time to explain a legal strat to us in detail.
Seems decent. If you have to  leave a UK BB alive it’s probably better ot leave the one in 111 alive as long as you have overwhelming odds in 110.

Take 112 (1 cruiser, 1 sub and 1 battleship) Yeah, I might use a plane here. It’s hard to say whether to take the Slovak ftr or a tac from 110. With this I could actually see Germany losing the sub and taking a hit on the BB often enough to make this a scary battle.

Let’s say however that only the BB got damaged.

Take 106 with 2 subs (117 / 118) Almost always the best thing to do with those 2 subs. Since the sub survives in 112, our luck is not so good as to keep both of these ones.

Take 110 (against BB and Cruiser + 3 scramble) with 2 subs (103/ 108) +  1 bomber 3 tactical (W. Germany) + 2 fighters (1 from Holland, 1 from Norway: none of these to south Italy)
Germany will be doing 4 hits here in all likelihood. UK will hit either the cruiser or the BB leaving 1 sub, and 2 ftrs, meaning the krauts take 1 ftr and 1 tac. That leaves 2 tac 1 bmb vs 2 ftr. Germany probably wouldn’t retreat with only 2 UK planes left.

Honestly as UK I doubt I’d scramble here, since Germany will get at least 4 hits most of the time, 5 is not a stretch. I guess I could just be happy with Germany having “wasted” the extra rolls of those planes.

So Germany keeps 1 sub and loses no planes.

Take France Turn 1 (4 infantry, 4 mec, 3 artillery, 4 tanks, 1 tactical from Poland, 1 fighter from Slovakia) I really think you need to plan for if not just expect 1 aa hit there. I know it’s less than 50/50, but we all know poop happens and this is such an important battle for Germany that it seems like more poop will happen.

So Germany (I count mech inf as inf for simplicity) has
8 inf, 3 art, 4 tanks, 1 tac
7 inf, 2 art, 2 tanks 1 ftr, 1 aa
France^

Round 1 5/6 hits for Germany (let’s say 5 since planning for slightly lower dice doesn’t take into consideration planning for the worst, which also happens all too often lol. This analysis might be a little too friendly compared to the axis dice my group usually sees round 1 :) )

Allies get 4-5, let’s say 5

So Round 2
3 inf 3 art 4 tanks 1 tac
3 inf 2 art 2 tank 1 ftr

Germany Gets 4-5, let’s say 4
Allies get 3-4, let’s say 3 this time.

Round 3:
3 art, 4 tanks, 1 tac
1 art, 2 tank, 1 ftr

Germany Gets 3-4, let’s say all 4 this time.
Allies get 2 ish.
Germany loses 4 inf 4 mechs 2 art. And that’s with quite even dice. Germany hit the lower end of average twice, higher once, allies hit the higher end of average once and lower once, as well as dead-on once, and the AA of course. That’s dangerously close to getting into German tanks. But,  I think if you want Normandy it’s the route you need to go.

Take Normandy Turn 1 (Destroy fighter to help Italian Fleet) - 1 Infantry, 1 tank and 1 fighter, Attack with 3 infantry, 1 tank, 1 tactical from Germany, 2 fighters ( 2 from W Germany) You should be able to walk away with the tank pretty reliably. It’s good to get those ftrs into action while still getting to S. Italy.

Yugo Bulg Finland are fine of course.

[Adalwolf]

@mantlefan:

Really, in situations where the land and sea are under attack, they can just hold back their ftrs and rape your Tac bombers.

I’m not exactly sure what the benefit of bombing the airbase so heavily is. UK never needs to spend more than 4 getting it operational again, and the Germans risk a lot once UK has 4 or 5 ftrs on London.

With a new rule, repairs to capitol ships and facilities should be paid for at the beginning of your next turn (ie “Purchase & repair units”), but do not come into effect until the end of the turn (ie “Mobilize new units”).  That would make it worthwhile.

[Jennifer]

Agreed, i think repairing your ships should cost something…maybe 4 IPC Carrier, 6 IPC Battleboat or something.

[Guest]

Honestly the way I read the rules, I thought it already worked that way.  I assumed that bombing facilities would take them out of action for a turn.  Its seem pointless to bomb something and the defender simply pays a small penalty to fix it and can use it right away.  My 2 cents is that repairs should not come into effect until the mobilize new units phase of the turn on which they paid for them.  Otherwise why would anyone ever bother bombing anything??

[Jennifer]

@Vance:

Honestly the way I read the rules, I thought it already worked that way.  I assumed that bombing facilities would take them out of action for a turn.  Its seem pointless to bomb something and the defender simply pays a small penalty to fix it and can use it right away.  My 2 cents is that repairs should not come into effect until the mobilize new units phase of the turn on which they paid for them.  Otherwise why would anyone ever bother bombing anything??

Being able to repair makes sense.  Otherwise, you can simply keep bombing your enemy preventing them from building ever, and then collect a HUGE payday when you decide it’s time to take them.  Since they cannot both repair and build, so why would they ever repair?

[Guest]

If you want to bomb them, you first have to build the bombers and then risk losing them to interceptors and AA, so you have to decide.  The defender has to decide whether they want to repair so they can use the facility next turn, or to do without the services of the facility and use the money some other way.  You both have to think much more carefully.  Imagine if you bomb their IC and they can mobilize fewer infantry next turn, or you bomb their naval base so the 109 destroyer can’t reach 106 next turn.  I am still learning the game so I just assumed this must be how you play it. It made sense to me.

[Jennifer]

@Vance:

If you want to bomb them, you first have to build the bombers and then risk losing them to interceptors and AA, so you have to decide.  The defender has to decide whether they want to repair so they can use the facility next turn, or to do without the services of the facility and use the money some other way.  You both have to think much more carefully.  Imagine if you bomb their IC and they can mobilize fewer infantry next turn, or you bomb their naval base so the 109 destroyer can’t reach 106 next turn.  I am still learning the game so I just assumed this must be how you play it. It made sense to me.

That’s already true, however.  If you do not repair, then you cannot build as many units or move as far.  But if I have to spend 20 IPC repairing Berlin and Frankfurt (combined value) and wait an entire round, hoping I dont get bombed again (and I probably will) to build units, then the Russians are going to be in Berlin without 4 or 5 rounds.  I’ll get get a couple a couple Strategics (whatever I can buy for 2 rounds) and send them and 5 fighters to Russia, then use them to bomb Germany each round while the Russians walk forward.  Germany won’t be able to stop them, since even 1 point of damage stops that complex from building anything for an entire round.  Meanwhile, all reinforcements come from France, W. France and S. France (limit 9) while Russia can buy up to 14 units a round.  Fine, so England is taken, but I shut down both major complexes in Germany.