Alpha 3 due next week

[jim010]

@Stalingradski:

My goodness? How is it possible to have any idea whatsover if Alpha 3 is good or not without 3 or 4 playtests?

Play some games, and if it’s not good, then hammer away. But it came out yesterday!

It looks fine to me until proven otherwise, and I do have some faith that some pretty good players playtested it and some pretty good minds spent time thinking about it. More time than any of us.

We’re all entitled to our opinion, but wow.

Viribus, that wasn’t directed to you, but to a huge group of people on both sites.

We are not opening this game up for the first time.  We have all played this, and some have played it extensively.  It is obvious to see what some changes will do to established tactics.  For example, I know Sealion is out because we have already hammered out the best UK defense possible in a thread, and I know what 4 extra soak will do because I can do math.

The ONLY thing we couldn’t say with any real certainty is if these changes open up new possibilities (which I doubt).

So don’t be so surprised when experienced players voice concerns,as they likely know what they are talking about.  Its like GM decided to change the design of their cars to not have a windshield.  I have enough experience driving a car to know that is a bad idea.

[gamerman01]

@jim010:

We are not opening this game up for the first time.  We have all played this, and some have played it extensively.  It is obvious to see what some changes will do to established tactics.  For example, I know Sealion is out because we have already hammered out the best UK defense possible in a thread, and I know what 4 extra soak will do because I can do math.

The ONLY thing we couldn’t say with any real certainty is if these changes open up new possibilities (which I doubt).

So don’t be so surprised when experienced players voice concerns,as they likely know what they are talking about.  Its like GM decided to change the design of their cars to not have a windshield.  I have enough experience driving a car to know that is a bad idea.

Very well put, Jim.  Thanks for saving me the time to say the same thing.

[ahensley85]

If we played Alpha 3 where is a good place to post your analysis of it?

[jim010]

I don’t mind losing Sealion, though.  But I wonder about Japan’s ability now to assist in attacking Russia.

My successes as Axis all invovled Sealion, or a no holds barred attack on Russia.  Both are now dininished, and I don’t see any other avenue to victory.

MAYBE the removal of $5 bonus from the US to Paris will help …

[jim010]

@ahensley85:

If we played Alpha 3 where is a good place to post your analysis of it?

Start a new thread.

[AllyAxis]

Played for 12+ hours yesterday enacting my All Axis on the Soviet Union strategy.  I found that Amur slowed me down a bit,  but ultimately I made it across to Russia with 7 tanks and 5 infantry.  course I lost everything on the pacific map, but Russia is totally surrounded using the Italians taking the Middle Easy and building a minor IC in Iraq and piping troops up from the south.  Germany has Lenningrad and is about to retake stalingrad.

Although it appears on the surface that it is pro Allies,  the IPC changes to America helped as they averaged 72 IPCs till they retook the phillipines.

I bascially sacrificed holding the pacific map to get the Japanese forces into russia and do a serious money grab.

The AA gun changes also will help the Axis take Moscow as they only get shots against 6 planes.  We’re not done playing yet,  The allies are strong in the pacific map but can’t get to Cairo to reinforce or Russia to help out.  There is a fleet pinned down by my 7 subs and I have  2 tacs and 4 fighters in Western Germany with ground troops .  I have Italians in Frace.

I think overall the Axis recieved a 10 IPC bonus from loosing some NO’s that were easily attainable by Britian and the US.

Will post pics when I can!

So far…  I’d say that the Axis did well in Alpha 3 with the NO changes and the Amur thing didn’t slow me down too badly .  course if the game was based upon one side of the map or the other  the pacific war is a total axis loss.  But the Japanese are stomping with the rest of the axis on Moscow.  They only have 11 IPCs  and won’t get more than 9 for sure next turn.

[AllyAxis]

@mantlefan:

Thanks for the analysis AllyAxis.

One thing to note is that Russia also has 2 AA guns in Novgorod, so they cna actually have 4 in Moscow. Also, IN most games I have played Germany can’t afford to send all of its planes to Moscow even jsut for that attack, so I don’t see 12 or less shots bothering the soviets that much. Let’s not forget the cumulative effects of those 4 extra hits over multiple rounds, either.

Did Japan ever get that new NO of theirs? Did Normandy or SZ 91 Survive Germany’s first turn? What did UK do to the Italian navy on round 1?

Obviously I haven’t seen the game but it seems like Itlay is having a pretty easy go of things even though UK barely had to worry about sealion.

I have already taken Lenningrad  and Moscow only has 2 AA guns.  They never moved them anywhere else and died in Lenningrad.  I have a plan but just in case my Allied player is reading I cannot reveal it yet.  I will be able to get more than 6 planes to moscow for sure before my final attack.  I am starting turn 7.

I took out the British Navy Turn 1  except for Canada and Sea Zone 109 destroyer /transport.

I went ALL AXIS on the Soviets  strategy.  So basically I only took land DEI, China  to generate IPC’s to build tanks.  I built a Major in Kiangsu on turn 3 and piped 7 tanks and 5 infantry and am currently sucking the life out of the Soviet Union.  So no .  I ignored the new NO completely.  I also Ignored Amur and went north of it and south of it.

British Navy attacked the Italian Battleship and  Cruiser but failed to take it. Italy survived with damaged battleship but I lost a scrambled fighter. no biggie the transport and Battleship were alive to fight another day with the cruiser destroyer sub and transport in SZ 95.

they did destroy the Malta Italian fleet SZ 96.  but he lost his entire navy in the Mediterranean and there was nothing he could do to deny my 5 IPC bonus for Italys entire game. he just didn’t have enough power the rest of the game with his navy unless america committed to it which they did not.  they went KJF  while I basically got cash built tanks headed west to Soviet russia fortified japan’s capital  and said screw the pacific map.

I will post links to my photo journal probably in a new thread.  Not my best photo journal but its something.  IF they will let me post links to my fb page where I host the images as public images.

I’m loading them now.  But it will take a while to label them .  I have them organized.

[AllyAxis]

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.242698569100351.51790.100000806294654&l=9c9f52613f&type=1

this is the setup for Alpha 3.  I heard later I got a tactical bomber back.  but it didn’t matter.  I still took out the British Navy and took France.  AA gun missed totally.

Here is my turn 1 link.  I didn’t take pictures of America’s limited movement .  Not my best photo journal since I was busy worrying about playing the Axis.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.242704939099714.51791.100000806294654&l=2aab661a53&type=1

[Omega1759]

@AllyAxis:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.242698569100351.51790.100000806294654&l=9c9f52613f&type=1

this is the setup for Alpha 3.   I heard later I got a tactical bomber back.  but it didn’t matter.  I still took out the British Navy and took France.  AA gun missed totally.

Here is my turn 1 link.   I didn’t take pictures of America’s limited movement .  Not my best photo journal since I was busy worrying about playing the Axis.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.242704939099714.51791.100000806294654&l=2aab661a53&type=1

Looks like the axis have it easy there, bad moves / purchases from the Allies!

[AllyAxis]

@mantlefan:

Thanks for the analysis AllyAxis.

One thing to note is that Russia also has 2 AA guns in Novgorod, so they cna actually have 4 in Moscow.

Very good point!!!  I will retreat them in the future when playing the Soviet Union if practical.  Better they survive to fight in the main onslaught than russia spending additional IPCs on air defese in the capitol.  I go back and forth on holding Lenningrad.  It depends upon Germany if I decide to hold it or not.  but anything to make Moscow harder to get is a good strat always.  thanks for the tip!

[knp7765]

Just finished our first game of Alpha+3.  Axis won in 7 rounds – Germany/Italy captured 8 of 11 on Europe board.  Was just about to take London too.  Japan also came close to getting 6 of 8 on the Pacific board but USA retook Honolulu in last round.
Germany decided against Sealion and concentrated on sacking Paris, sinking Royal Navy and preparing for Barbarossa.  Put Major IC in Romania round 1.  Round 2 put 3 transports in Black Sea and an airbase for Romania with 3 fighters ready to go.  Round 3 took Caucasus and launched Barbarossa all along European front.  Russia tried putting stacks of infantry along border (6-8) but it did no good as Germany was able to amass lots of men, artillery and tanks all along border.  Russia held tanks and artillery in reserve but did no counterattack so Germany just kept smashing along.  Poor choices by Russia this time I think.  By end of round 5, Germany had Moscow surrounded with nearly 3-1 advantage.  The Romanian Major IC and transports in the Black Sea really helped Germany get ahead fast, plus get the Middle-East NOs much earlier than usual.
Italy had a hard time in the Med with Britain and it went back and forth…  They must have exchanged Egypt 3 or 4 times before Italy finally got enough stuff there to be able to hold it.  UK couldn’t keep up with Italy’s builds plus keep chasing German submarines.
Japan overran China but left Russia alone at first.  Got a good size force in Burma ready to attack India but India attacked first and destroyed Japan’s invasion force.  US and Japanese fleets clash in Philippine Sea and annihilate each other.  However, US is making more money and can better replace their fleet, which they start doing.  Japan manages to take Hawaii and hold for 3 rounds.  US takes Hawaii back, but Japan takes Sydney.  Japan starting to build new navy to counter US.  Also with Minor ICs in Shanghai and Hong Kong, sending tanks toward Burma.  Japan’s air force down to about 1/3 of starting.
I don’t really see that much difference in Alpha 3.  The new AA gun rule is interesting and nearly cost Japan the Sydney battle with those 2 extra defense hit soaks.  Since Germany didn’t go after London, the “Russia attacking after London falls” rule didn’t apply.  I think the new Italian fleet layout helps the Italians a lot, and so does having a strat bomber.  Overall, I think the game still largely depends on the players skill, experience and choices.

[AllyAxis]

@knp7765:

Just finished our first game of Alpha+3.  Axis won in 7 rounds – Germany/Italy captured 8 of 11 on Europe board.  Was just about to take London too.  Japan also came close to getting 6 of 8 on the Pacific board but USA retook Honolulu in last round.
Germany decided against Sealion and concentrated on sacking Paris, sinking Royal Navy and preparing for Barbarossa.  Put Major IC in Romania round 1.  Round 2 put 3 transports in Black Sea and an airbase for Romania with 3 fighters ready to go.  Round 3 took Caucasus and launched Barbarossa all along European front.  Russia tried putting stacks of infantry along border (6-8) but it did no good as Germany was able to amass lots of men, artillery and tanks all along border.  Russia held tanks and artillery in reserve but did no counterattack so Germany just kept smashing along.  Poor choices by Russia this time I think.  By end of round 5, Germany had Moscow surrounded with nearly 3-1 advantage.  The Romanian Major IC and transports in the Black Sea really helped Germany get ahead fast, plus get the Middle-East NOs much earlier than usual.
Italy had a hard time in the Med with Britain and it went back and forth…  They must have exchanged Egypt 3 or 4 times before Italy finally got enough stuff there to be able to hold it.  UK couldn’t keep up with Italy’s builds plus keep chasing German submarines.
Japan overran China but left Russia alone at first.  Got a good size force in Burma ready to attack India but India attacked first and destroyed Japan’s invasion force.  US and Japanese fleets clash in Philippine Sea and annihilate each other.  However, US is making more money and can better replace their fleet, which they start doing.  Japan manages to take Hawaii and hold for 3 rounds.  US takes Hawaii back, but Japan takes Sydney.  Japan starting to build new navy to counter US.  Also with Minor ICs in Shanghai and Hong Kong, sending tanks toward Burma.  Japan’s air force down to about 1/3 of starting.
I don’t really see that much difference in Alpha 3.  The new AA gun rule is interesting and nearly cost Japan the Sydney battle with those 2 extra defense hit soaks.  Since Germany didn’t go after London, the “Russia attacking after London falls” rule didn’t apply.  I think the new Italian fleet layout helps the Italians a lot, and so does having a strat bomber.  Overall, I think the game still largely depends on the players skill, experience and choices.

I totally agree with you.  I think the 6-8 infantry wall is a bad choice for the Soviets. Better to buffer and counter when you can and stack a large force until you can build tanks to counter with them.

Love the idea of transports in SZ100.  Have to use that sometime.  At first I wasn’t sure about the Major in Romania since its not any closer to russia,  but coming to the middle easy in force with Germany and taking the Caucus and forcing the action southward surely would make taking lenningrad and the soviets therefore loosing archangel easier.  But if the Allies see it they may consider moving planes in range to hit it.  Did you have to defend your transports with a CVN?  or did you build an airbase there too?  Another good option. Never thought about an Under Southern Route of transports tanks and men hitting the Ukraine , caucus, and Rostov before.

[gamerman01]

knp - switch sides and see how that goes.

[Jennifer]

I’d like to close this thread soon.  Alpha 3 is currently out and there are numerous threads rehashing the same comments.

[AllyAxis]

@Cmdr:

I’d like to close this thread soon.  Alpha 3 is currently out and there are numerous threads rehashing the same comments.

let me know where to go next and I will totally go there.  Thanks for your advice Cmr Jennifer it has been helpful in my recent matches!!!

[Andi]

@AllyAxis:

[…] I built a Major in Kiangsu […]

Is this allowed? ???

[AllyAxis]

@Andi:

@AllyAxis:

[…] I built a Major in Kiangsu […]

Is this allowed? ???

I was japan and it is also the VC space for shanghi  a 3 space.

[JimmyHat]

@AllyAxis:

@Andi:

@AllyAxis:

[…] I built a Major in Kiangsu […]

Is this allowed? ???

I was japan and it is also the VC space for shanghi  a 3 space.

Ah I see, well then it looks like you were wrong.  Its not legal for any nation to build a major ic on foreign soil.  Even though Japan starts the game in 1940 with that territory, its a Chinese territory.  Don’t sweat it, we all made that mistake.  Chinese rules must not have been finalized before production started on the map, otherwise those territories would be green and you would be told in the setup to put a Japanese control marker there.

[knp7765]

Yeah, whenever I setup for a game, one of the first things I do is put Japanese control markers on those six Chinese territories that they start the game with.  That way it just avoids confusion about whose territory it really is.  I don’t understand why they don’t instruct you to do that in the rule book.  Remember the Anniversary edition with the 1942 setup?

[AllyAxis]

@knp7765:

Yeah, whenever I setup for a game, one of the first things I do is put Japanese control markers on those six Chinese territories that they start the game with.  That way it just avoids confusion about whose territory it really is.  I don’t understand why they don’t instruct you to do that in the rule book.  Remember the Anniversary edition with the 1942 setup?

Ah.  I don’t really disagree,  but at the same time I don’t think I did anything that any of my players would have disagreed with either.  Since we all thought it was perfectl legal.  In the end you can ask my players…  I fretted a great deal about actually spending 20 IPCs  and not really producing more than 3 units there except once in the game.  It would have been better for me to have proceeded with 2 minor IC’s on the board instead of a major.  Thanks for the heads up .  I just can’t seem to play this game perfectly with all the myriad rules  and this one is a total suprise to me!  I would say that since we all thought it was legal its a house rule game.  I never found that rule.