If Germany goes all armor, the Allies should be going for a very aggressive navy build in the Atlantic. An Allies player that really pushes the pace can be making substantial threats on France and Germany by turn 3. Even if Germany turtles on G3 and builds all defense, they will likely still lose France at the very least with such an aggressive build. With Russia, you just need to play a little cautious. I would recommend going defensive with your builds, and abandoning Karelia, pulling those units back to Archangel. Even if you have to stack Moscow on R2 and leave Caucasus open, there’s no way that Germany can take Moscow on G3. Once Germany starts having to play defense in France and Germany, Russia can start building tanks to push the unreinforced German line west. It’s the beginning of the end for the Axis in Europe.
Where to build a Jap IC
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Japan is constrained by their one IC in the home islands, and out of all the powers is the most in need of more production zones. I was wondering what people do to increase this production.
I see 3 options:
J1 IC in Manch-personal fav but can be hard to defend against Russian inf stack
J1 IC in FIC–too limited of production but helps to put pressure on India for J3
J2 IC in Eindies-another favorite of mine, I like the increased production available and I always seem to have extra trns running around -
J2 in Manchuria after having landed many of your fighters there and transporting troops across from Japan. I don’t generally see Russia managing to take it with the infantry stack when defended by fighters, infantry and artillery poised to hit the rest of China and move into russia.
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I see 3 options:
J1 IC in Manch-personal fav but can be hard to defend against Russian inf stack
J1 IC in FIC–too limited of production but helps to put pressure on India for J3
J2 IC in Eindies-another favorite of mine, I like the increased production available and I always seem to have extra trns running aroundJapan’s options are often dictated by their buy and attacks (and subsequent placement of their navy) on J1.
Many players like to take the philipines J1, and then leave their loaded carriers in SZ51 (carolines). Without cover, a J1 transport purchase would not be wise against the US bomber in WUS. Then many players buy the IC for round 1. I like to defer the philipine conquest to J2, especially if UK still owns egypt J1. I like to take burma and threaten the back door into Africa. Under this scenario, the J2 IC purchase in East Indies works well. -
The reason I suggest the IC in manch J1 has 2 reasons. Primarily it is a lure, to get the Russian inf stack to stay on the coast and be annihilated by a Jap amphib on J2. Secondly, provided the Russians are more tactically aware and leave it alone, it will then produce ground units for the war in China and later on Russia. Destroying those Russian 7 inf on the coast opens the road to Moscow, adding pressure as early as possible. Manch can be defended from the Russian stack(provided no bmb build in caucusus) with 1 inf plus 2 ftrs or so.
I don’t like the fleet purchase for Japan but that is because I go for Philipines and Carsz as you suggested and therefore cannot defend the Japsz. If I don’t go IC, I’ve been buying 1 arm 1 bmb and a J2 IC in Eindies, but I think the ipcs can be better used with an IC purchase J1.
I would like to hear some reasoning behind a FIC IC. Is it more of a deterrent to an indian IC? Is it purely to assist the early capture of India, then produces armor for the soutern front, or is it to supply a limited war against China while the majority of your power units go to Europe?
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The reason I suggest the IC in manch J1 has 2 reasons. Primarily it is a lure, to get the Russian inf stack to stay on the coast and be annihilated by a Jap amphib on J2. Secondly, provided the Russians are more tactically aware and leave it alone, it will then produce ground units for the war in China and later on Russia. Destroying those Russian 7 inf on the coast opens the road to Moscow, adding pressure as early as possible. Manch can be defended from the Russian stack(provided no bmb build in caucusus) with 1 inf plus 2 ftrs or so.
If I’m Russia I like this attack (7 inf against 1 inf 2 fig). It’s 70% to win with with an average 3 inf remaining, and afterwards Japan needs to divert a transport or 2 from SZ 50 or 61 to counter Man. Since you’ve bought no trans J1, the Japanese expansion onto the islands and acquisition of the final NO will be relatively slow, especially if 1-3 transports were sunk between J1 and J2 by Allied air/naval.
Of course, you could leave more infantry to defend Man, but the trade-off is risking slowing Japan’s expansion into China.
Man is an excellent place for a Jap factory but I’d rather max out Japan’s capacity before thinking about additional production.
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Man is an excellent place for a Jap factory but I’d rather max out Japan’s capacity before thinking about additional production.
Other than dealing with the Chinese, I find Manchuria to be one of the less recommended places for the IC. The reason is that units built on Japan can be transported to Soviet Far East, taking the same time to reach Moscow than units built on Manchuria. And since you can divert some of those units to Manchuria to help with the Chinese then the IC doesn’t give you really an advantage. Of course, if you are using it to build only armor then they will have an advantage reaching Moscow first than armor built on J and offloaded to SFE.
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on j1 i buy 2 transports and a man. on j2 i buy 2 factories and a tank, if all looks good(i have 4 transports near india/burma), i build my factories on the islands, borneo and ei, i call it the “twin island factory” strategy. if u do this strat, u must marry/dedicate 4 transports to the factories so each one can produce 2 men and 2 tanks a turn. thats 4 men and 4 tanks every turn getting transported to the mainland. it is a little slower start then building factories on the mainland, but as soon as u r set up, u produce double the units then if ur factories were in burma and frindo. also island factories r pretty safe from russian tanks and allied bombers.
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on j1 i buy 2 transports and a man. on j2 i buy 2 factories and a tank, if all looks good(i have 4 transports near india/burma), i build my factories on the islands, borneo and ei, i call it the “twin island factory” strategy. if u do this strat, u must marry/dedicate 4 transports to the factories so each one can produce 2 men and 2 tanks a turn. thats 4 men and 4 tanks every turn getting transported to the mainland. it is a little slower start then building factories on the mainland, but as soon as u r set up, u produce double the units then if ur factories were in burma and frindo. also island factories r pretty safe from russian tanks and allied bombers.
Factories can’t be built on Islands.
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on j1 i buy 2 transports and a man. on j2 i buy 2 factories and a tank, if all looks good(i have 4 transports near india/burma), i build my factories on the islands, borneo and ei, i call it the “twin island factory” strategy. if u do this strat, u must marry/dedicate 4 transports to the factories so each one can produce 2 men and 2 tanks a turn. thats 4 men and 4 tanks every turn getting transported to the mainland. it is a little slower start then building factories on the mainland, but as soon as u r set up, u produce double the units then if ur factories were in burma and frindo. also island factories r pretty safe from russian tanks and allied bombers.
Factories can’t be built on Islands.
Yes they can. This is AA50, not AAP/E/G40
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Oh, sorry I thought I was in the Global section. :oops:
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In E40, you don’t need that rule anyway since there is no island worth more than 1 ipc.
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Man is an excellent place for a Jap factory but I’d rather max out Japan’s capacity before thinking about additional production.
Other than dealing with the Chinese, I find Manchuria to be one of the less recommended places for the IC. The reason is that units built on Japan can be transported to Soviet Far East, taking the same time to reach Moscow than units built on Manchuria. And since you can divert some of those units to Manchuria to help with the Chinese then the IC doesn’t give you really an advantage. Of course, if you are using it to build only armor then they will have an advantage reaching Moscow first than armor built on J and offloaded to SFE.
Japan has limited options, and needs an IC or two (or three) in most games. Since it takes awhile to secure India….what’s the next best choice? Manchuria is a 3 and its on the mainland. In situations where after J3-J4 I’m producing all armor anyway, I’m betting a 3 ipc factory is a better investment than a 2 ipc factory over time.
Overall Man is likely a better value than Sum because you don’t have to invest naval resources or aa guns to defend/exploit it… Unlike Fic/Bur/Sum, Man cannot be bombed or captured by the Allies, and since it is close to Japan, it makes for a defensible mainland stronghold.
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I agree that it is defensible. Japan will most likely be concerned with defending the Japsz, and Manch is part of that area. I did find Hobbes point that it isn’t really closer to Moscow to be quite intriguing. As a base for purely 3 armor purchases, it is superior, but if you plan on building inf from there they would be better built on Japan itself and shipped over.
I am just not a fan of an IC in FIC. It seems like 2 produciton is far to small to defend itself. The only reason I can see building it is to try and deter an IC in India. Not sure if a UK IC in india is bad for the allies or not.
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I build a J1 IC in FIC. This gives me a very early resupply of troops and attack pieces (arty) in the South West Asia, CBI,and South West Pacific areas. While an IC and sometimes even a latter one in Burma do not equal the production of island ICs, they do not require Naval defense and transport. I build a second IC in Manchuria when this and Japan maxes out, which is about turn 3. Depending on how early I capture India I will put an IC there or Burma, and by late may have built one in Burma after building one in India. I also like the ability of FIC to drop ships in SZ36 and SZ37.
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I standard build a IC in Manchuria. Its the most bang for a buck. Then later I build an IC in India as well. These combined give Japan the IC output it needs to take on the Allies and the SU.
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my personal preference for an IC in manch has waxed and waned over the weeks since finding this game, I believe I have fallen on the side of Pro Manch IC. Even if you are afriad you will lose it J2, having it there helps to secure china and the northern road to moscow. I am a big fan of the northern road since it is unsupported by brits moving through the middle east and takes money directly away from Russia during the advance.
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a manch factory is stupid(imo), u already can produce 8 from tokyo. also, persia is better target for the japs then trying to get 2 moscow up north, a good russian player can stop jap advance up north easier then from the south. and if u build 2 twin island factories on j2, u can probably build another one in india or burma on j3, and another(india or burma) on j4. that will give u enough production 2 threaten(take) persia(or africa).
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please elaborate on how the Russians are going to stop the Japanese advance in the north? My opponent keeps building the Manch IC J1 and then pumps out 3 tanks a round. Add to that a landing in SFE of 3 inf 3 arm or 4 inf 4 arm and very soon japan has Evenki and is trading urals/novo. I can usually trade india and keep china alive for much of the game, but what does that matter if Japan is in Moscow?
BTW, I usually have UK with fleet in Atlantic and trying to build a ground army of their own(karelia or Finland) and the US is shucking 4 inf to africa and messing with Japan in pacific.
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The only thing I can think of is to help the 7-9 russian inf that have w/d from out east is with some allied ftrs. If you make a stand in Evenki, and the UK navy is stationed in SZ3, ftrs can make it to evenki, and you can add additional ftrs as needed andd replace with UK or even US ftrs bought in EUS (to SZ3)
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Theoretically, you can contain both Chi and Evenki with a stack of inf/art on Nov and tanks on Russia. However, that requires keeping significant forces in places like Nov and Rus that are far away from Western Europe and the big Russia NO.
I think what Silver means when he refers to it being easier to kill Russia from Persia is 1) the industry from Ind/Bur/Sum is the fastest route to Russia and 2) late game, the mechanics of breaking down Russia are easier if you are coming from Persia, since you can reduce Cau and downsize Russia’s production.
But first Japan must stack Persia, which ought to be a challenge. A good Russian player should anticipate this and deadzone Persia.
The easiest way for Japan to prevent that is advance with infantry on all fronts, wear down Russia via attrition.
So I wouldn’t recommend a Northern or Southern route. Better to get as many boots on the ground as you can and then adapt to what the Allies are doing.
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