Why were there only 3 play-test games for Global?

[Darkness]

I agree with JeffDestroyer, and to a minor degree MaherC.

I personally payed an enormous amount of money for this game (as I had a love of the MB version as a kid) with an assumption that the game would be relatively balanced.  Quite frankly I’m shocked, offended and enraged at how many people I’ve read coming to the defense of the game creators in these forums.  You should be furious with the creators, not just desperate to create rules to fix the game.

“They’re trying to correct the problems”, they say.  Well, that’s good.  As Jeff said above me, please mail out a corrected setup rulebook.  However, it’s quite clear that we really shelled out our money for an “IOU for one quality board game”.

I refuse to be a part of the playtesting experience on principle alone, as that is not what I intended to purchase.  If this were a free item or an optional add-on, I’d say “fine, I don’t have to use it”.  To those who say “Just use house rules”, if I wanted to do that, there’s very little reason to buy this game.

In the end, I feel duped and punked.  Tricked like a sucker to fancy graphics.  Only after searching the internet to see if other people felt ripped off did I find a site like this.  Strangely, the folks on it are actually TOO dedicated to Axis and Allies to fight the problem, and instead look to create a solution for themselves.

As for me, I’ll tell those that I know that Axis and Allies has a creator who should be flushed out of the profession.

[calvinhobbesliker]

You want Larry gone? He’s one of the best game designers. Unlike most, he actually listens to his customers and makes changes. The errors in Tacs, setup, and Battleboard are not his fault. The lack of balance stems from the J1 attack and J3 India Crush. The J3IC is a nuanced strategy that requires precise moves. Thus, it is difficult to discover even with 50 playtests, as the game has so many options. The J1 attack did not obviously lead to a victory in the beginning. It also requires precise planning and moves.

[Imperious Leader]

I know that Axis and Allies has a creator who should be flushed out of the profession.

Thats a terrible comment to make, but you got a right to it.

If it was not for him nobody would be here and nobody would be enjoying his games. He along with the chap who created Risk, invented area movement games and bucket of dice mechanism.

He is the father of American games with bits of plastic.

You can complain about play-test models and quality, but the bottom line is still a great game.

[WILD BILL]

@Darkness:

I personally payed an enormous amount of money for this game(as I had a love of the MB version as a kid) with an assumption that the game would be relatively balanced.  Quite frankly I’m shocked, offended and enraged at how many people I’ve read coming to the defense of the game creators in these forums.  You should be furious with the creators, not just desperate to create rules to fix the game.

blah blah blah

As for me, I’ll tell those that I know that Axis and Allies has a creator who should be flushed out of the profession.

You know you are talking about the same guy here don’t you. You know the same guy that started it back in the 80"s and created the game you loved as a kid and the entire Axis & Allies series (along with a barrage of other games). Larry is still very hands on w/every game released. He heads the design team, and it is his people that test the game. This is a fairly complicated version, with A MUCH LARGER MAP (awesome), many new units, bases and minor allies. Many of us on this site have been waiting a long time for something of this level (so we can tinker with it). For you to bust in here with your 1st and only post (unless you have other aliases), with this kind of rant is just rude. You have the right to not like the game, but do a little research before you toss the AA creator under the bus on a site that holds him in high regard.

By the way, how many games have you played to even have this kind of reaction? It’s only been out for a couple weeks.

[trackmagic]

In my opinion people who want a basic/balanced game that they can just follow the rule book should play 1942. Global 1940 is an advanced version of the game and many advanced A&A players like to make house rules. Did you guys figure out the J1 attack or any of the other “bugs” on your own or did you find out about them by searching these forums? If you came up with those strategies on your own then more power to you. However, playtesting cannot compete with the army of players that are on these forums so once a powerful strategy is discovered by somebody then the news spreads pretty fast.

If playtesters played every possible scenerio to test it, then it would take 20 years for the game to be released.

[almashir]

Reading through earlier posts I saw references to a fix for “missing Tac bombers” in Pacific1940.  Does this mean there were supposed to be more than 6 Japanese Tac bomber pieces included?  If so, does it also mean we can contact the company and get the missing pieces sent to us?

[reloader-1]

Yes! They will send 6 more tacs free, and a new battleboard.

[gamerman01]

But Larry has come up with “alpha” setup for P40 now, and so you may not even need the extra 6  :lol:

2 of the 6 that WOTC sent me were crap (about to break), but I was happy for the 4.

With Alpha setup for P40, I think Global 1940 is a complete success.  I’m already thinking about what I would do about an American complex in Norway (first of all - if you take it over once it will smash it back down to a minor).  Point is, there are counters to things most times, like IL said.

All this talk about P40 being tilted toward Axis and E40 being tilted toward Allies so that G40 would be balanced is just ridiculous, IMO.  And you love your A&A Classic?  That’s nice - there were MAJOR fixes to that game.  The Axis need a HUGE bid, and/or alternate victory conditions, they need a Russian restricted attack, super subs, jets, etc etc.  A&A Classic was severely unbalanced, but I didn’t detect that until after I got used to it, got good at it, and finally realized the Allies win every time.  But a Russian restricted attack changed that quite a bit.

Do you really need your game to be perfect out of the box?  Then go buy a game of Monopoly or Risk.  A&A is as much art as it is science.  And when you think you know it all, challenge me to a game on-line and we’ll see.  :-)  Bet you blame the dice when we’re done.  :-D

[MaherC]

once again an example of a fanboy defending the gods rather than seeing that the MAJORITY of people who buy these games will not get their hands on extra tac bombers, updated rules/setups.

the game was not released as final.  we paid for a beta.  LH may have been creative in the 80s, but it’s 2010.  Even Brett Favre needs to hang it up eventually.

the money we spent on the 2 games is not a drop in the bucket.  If it is for you, feel free to contact me for my paypal info and you can buy me out, and I’ll shut up about the subject.  You guys can come up w/all the optional setups and house rules you want to make the game balanced.    Setups and rules that the majority of AA players will not know about.

[gamerman01]

@MaherC:

Setups and rules that the majority of AA players will not know about.

First, I don’t appreciate being called names.  I just have a different perspective than you.

Second, your beloved A&A Classic was a “messed up game” out of the box by the criteria you’re using to judge these recent games.  Allies should win every time after you figure out how to play.  So why not rip on Classic?

P40’s a good game OOB.  If you don’t like it, change the rules and make your own house rule.  Apparently you need to be spoonfed with a perfect game that you don’t have to tweak in any way whatsoever.  There are great games called “Chess” and “Monopoly” that need no tweaking whatsoever.  If you don’t like it (1940 games), fine.  You’ve said your piece.

Next!

[almashir]

Cool.  Thanks for the info.  I’ll contact Wizards of the Coast.

[trackmagic]

@gamerman01:

@MaherC:

Setups and rules that the majority of AA players will not know about.

First, I don’t appreciate being called names.  I just have a different perspective than you.

Second, your beloved A&A Classic was a “messed up game” out of the box by the criteria you’re using to judge these recent games.  Allies should win every time after you figure out how to play.  So why not rip on Classic?

P40’s a good game OOB.  If you don’t like it, change the rules and make your own house rule.  Apparently you need to be spoonfed with a perfect game that you don’t have to tweak in any way whatsoever.  There are great games called “Chess” and “Monopoly” that need no tweaking whatsoever.  If you don’t like it (1940 games), fine.  You’ve said your piece.

Next!

Yep…

[MaherC]

@gamerman01:

@MaherC:

Setups and rules that the majority of AA players will not know about.

First, I don’t appreciate being called names.  I just have a different perspective than you.

Second, your beloved A&A Classic was a “messed up game” out of the box by the criteria you’re using to judge these recent games.  Allies should win every time after you figure out how to play.  So why not rip on Classic?

P40’s a good game OOB.  If you don’t like it, change the rules and make your own house rule.  Apparently you need to be spoonfed with a perfect game that you don’t have to tweak in any way whatsoever.  There are great games called “Chess” and “Monopoly” that need no tweaking whatsoever.  If you don’t like it (1940 games), fine.  You’ve said your piece.

Next!

Once again you miss the point.  FOR 90$ YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO CHANGE THE RULES OF A GAME OUT OF THE BOX TO MAKE IT PLAYABLE.

J1 / J3IC actually MAKE pac40 very much like the chess you tell me to go play.

Next time you go to buy a car, drop 20,000 and tell them you don’t need the body, you’ll tweak some cardboard into one.

[MaherC]

Would love to see sales figures for P40/E40/G40.  If 600 copies were sold, then you are completely right.  There is no need for the game to be good to go out of the box.  AA is a small, niche market, 90% of which reads these forums.

But if in some crazy attempt to actually turn a profit WOTC was trying to produce a game for more than those of us who read these forums…

EPIC FAIL.

[dadler12]

I agree with gamerman and yoper. I think its very obvious, especially if any of you have worked for or with a corporation, that quality does not matter 1% as much as meeting deadlines and maximizing profit margins. Short of Larry Harris totally producing his own game (the cost to him would be gargantuan and guess what, it would be passed on to you the consumer who is already complaining about buying a game priced at $180, imagine buying one at $350-$500).  If you don’t like the game, you have two options. 1. Contact WOTC or the store which you bought it, vent your grievances, and demand a return. 2. Channel your anger into something constructive, like the project to attempt to balance the game. Everyone has a right to bitch but some people on here are way past that point and are simply beating a dead horse. I think Global 40 is balanced OOB and the “alpha setup” makes for a similarly balanced games as well (for the record I’ve played 6 games of Global so far 3 oob, 1 with the air force reduction change, and 2 with alpha). If you’re so sure Larry Harris is like Brett Favre (who sucks and is an egotistical baby) I dare you to create a better game that can actually be sold on a mass scale like Axis and Allies. Return your game or help fix it. Stop insulting people and whining.

[MaherC]

Tell you what internet tough guy, you win a Super Bowl, 3 NFL MVPs and earn 100s of millions of dollars and I’ll make a game as good as LH’s.  Oh? you can’t play in the NFL?  But you can still have an opinion about a player in it?    Funny, you said I can’t say these games are garbage and LH has lost his touch according to your rules unless I myself can do better…

Pay 350 for a game that actually works?  You got it.  Some of us aren’t using our allowances here.  Paid $100 for AA50, $160+ for these 2 games, silly me for expecting MORE from G40 (touted as the MOSTUS EXPECKUS GAMEZ OF 4X!S n 4||i3Z EVUR! by all the fanboys).

[dadler12]

@MaherC:

Tell you what internet tough guy, you win a Super Bowl, 3 NFL MVPs and earn 100s of millions of dollars and I’ll make a game as good as LH’s.  Oh? you can’t play in the NFL?  But you can still have an opinion about a player in it?    Funny, you said I can’t say these games are garbage and LH has lost his touch according to your rules unless I myself can do better…

Pay 350 for a game that actually works?  You got it.  Some of us aren’t using our allowances here.   Paid $100 for AA50, $160+ for these 2 games, silly me for expecting MORE from G40 (touted as the MOSTUS EXPECKUS GAMEZ OF 4X!S n 4||i3Z EVUR! by all the fanboys).

I said you could complain. The quote is “Everyone has a right to b**** but some people on here are way past that point and are simply beating a dead horse,” I guess you understood who it was directed at. My point was you could continue to whine and complain on this forum, but that it was silly, useless, and in the end not constructive or helpful to anyone but your ego. If you hate the game return it man. And ya, I don’t have an allowance I’m a grown man MaherC. I bought this game with my own money. Thanks for the insult though. Just proving my point when I said “Stop insulting people and whining.” May I ask why are you picking fights with people on an internet forum for a board game?

[reloader-1]

Maher - I see your point, but no need to barge around like a bull in a china shop.

I own every single one of the games released since the Nova Games version - and I own that one too.

The current global games have the best component quality, best rules explanation, and arguably the best balance except for the smaller battle-level games.

All of the Axis & Allies games have been broken to some extent - for one thing, the variety of options available to players means that sometimes the optimal strategy is not discovered until it is released to the general public.

Do we have a great game? Yes. Did WotC listen to us? Mostly.

Better quality pieces - check
Better quality boards - check
Enough pieces - check
Better rules - check
Less misspellings - check

More chips - not so much…
and I’m sure you can think of different problems, as well.

No one is perfect - and given how tough things are right now, I understand speeding up production schedules.

All that being said, A&A Global is a darn good game, and worth every penny - why did you pay $180 for both games? You can get it for $120 at Coolstuffinc.com (shipped!)

[hoduken]

I got to agree with MaherC a little here. Its obvious that he’s being a little to zealous, but the point he is trying to make is important. We, as consumers, really need to let the companies know when we feel like we are being taken advantage of. Turning a blind eye and rationalizing away problems through creative personal action is basically telling the company that they can just do it again. I mean, if you want to pay 80 or even 160 for a game that has pretty obvious flaws out of the box then i will gladly print you all a world war 2 game that i made myself. it does require that you all make up some rules so that 1 player doesn’t win every time, in addition you need to print out some stuff to correct some misprints as well.

That cool?

ill even give you all my paypal account info and some pics of the killer artwork.

On a side note to the flame. can anyone give me their personal opinion on AA50 vs global?

[dadler12]

As an upset consumer, make your point to WOTC. They don’t read this forum. This is a forum for players. You may have to call them, email them, or write them an angry letter. But insulting fellow players on an internet forum will not help anything.