Why were there only 3 play-test games for Global?

[calvinhobbesliker]

@MaherC:

no offense son, but I saw from another thread you still live with your parents.  when you’re not wet behind the ears I’ll take what you have to say seriously.

So since I’m not 18 yet, I am not allowed to have an opinion on the quality of the game?

[Latro]

@MaherC:

no offense son, but I saw from another thread you still live with your parents.   when you’re not wet behind the ears I’ll take what you have to say seriously.

You’re aware that his posts actually make more sense than yours, right?

:roll:

(PS No, I don’t agree with everything he says … but at least he doesn’t SHOUT as much and tends to use more than one word in a sentence.)

[MaherC]

So, those of us who have global have spent ~$180 to become playtesters?  Super.

These snafus have soured many people I know to the AA franchise.  I know people who did not buy E40 after feeling cheated on P40.  People who have played AA for 20 years.  There are also people out there who are playing an unbalanced P40 who have no idea about the setup changes, or would even think to contact a manufacturer for an updated rulebook and missing pieces (when all the pieces in the rulebook shipped with the game are present) and are being turned off to buying another AA game (Like many who bought DDAY/GUADAL felt).

As for turning our gripes into grapes that will make the sweet wine of AA to wash away all our whine…that’s hard to do with all the LH fanboys out there defending their demigod as if he can never be wrong.  Pac40? Bad.  Blame Hasbro/WOTC or whoever.  Point is, it should not take 6 months to fix Pac40.  These games should be BALANCED AS STAND ALONE GAMES.  They are not.

[jeffdestroyer]

It should not only posted on their site for download by the consumer but could also be sent out to those who request a copy similarly to what they did for the tac bombers/battle board……I agree!

If I get a new rulebook after all of this which includes the FAQ and correct setups, then it will be worth it.

[Darkness]

I agree with JeffDestroyer, and to a minor degree MaherC.

I personally payed an enormous amount of money for this game (as I had a love of the MB version as a kid) with an assumption that the game would be relatively balanced.  Quite frankly I’m shocked, offended and enraged at how many people I’ve read coming to the defense of the game creators in these forums.  You should be furious with the creators, not just desperate to create rules to fix the game.

“They’re trying to correct the problems”, they say.  Well, that’s good.  As Jeff said above me, please mail out a corrected setup rulebook.  However, it’s quite clear that we really shelled out our money for an “IOU for one quality board game”.

I refuse to be a part of the playtesting experience on principle alone, as that is not what I intended to purchase.  If this were a free item or an optional add-on, I’d say “fine, I don’t have to use it”.  To those who say “Just use house rules”, if I wanted to do that, there’s very little reason to buy this game.

In the end, I feel duped and punked.  Tricked like a sucker to fancy graphics.  Only after searching the internet to see if other people felt ripped off did I find a site like this.  Strangely, the folks on it are actually TOO dedicated to Axis and Allies to fight the problem, and instead look to create a solution for themselves.

As for me, I’ll tell those that I know that Axis and Allies has a creator who should be flushed out of the profession.

[calvinhobbesliker]

You want Larry gone? He’s one of the best game designers. Unlike most, he actually listens to his customers and makes changes. The errors in Tacs, setup, and Battleboard are not his fault. The lack of balance stems from the J1 attack and J3 India Crush. The J3IC is a nuanced strategy that requires precise moves. Thus, it is difficult to discover even with 50 playtests, as the game has so many options. The J1 attack did not obviously lead to a victory in the beginning. It also requires precise planning and moves.

[Imperious Leader]

I know that Axis and Allies has a creator who should be flushed out of the profession.

Thats a terrible comment to make, but you got a right to it.

If it was not for him nobody would be here and nobody would be enjoying his games. He along with the chap who created Risk, invented area movement games and bucket of dice mechanism.

He is the father of American games with bits of plastic.

You can complain about play-test models and quality, but the bottom line is still a great game.

[WILD BILL]

@Darkness:

I personally payed an enormous amount of money for this game(as I had a love of the MB version as a kid) with an assumption that the game would be relatively balanced.  Quite frankly I’m shocked, offended and enraged at how many people I’ve read coming to the defense of the game creators in these forums.  You should be furious with the creators, not just desperate to create rules to fix the game.

blah blah blah

As for me, I’ll tell those that I know that Axis and Allies has a creator who should be flushed out of the profession.

You know you are talking about the same guy here don’t you. You know the same guy that started it back in the 80"s and created the game you loved as a kid and the entire Axis & Allies series (along with a barrage of other games). Larry is still very hands on w/every game released. He heads the design team, and it is his people that test the game. This is a fairly complicated version, with A MUCH LARGER MAP (awesome), many new units, bases and minor allies. Many of us on this site have been waiting a long time for something of this level (so we can tinker with it). For you to bust in here with your 1st and only post (unless you have other aliases), with this kind of rant is just rude. You have the right to not like the game, but do a little research before you toss the AA creator under the bus on a site that holds him in high regard.

By the way, how many games have you played to even have this kind of reaction? It’s only been out for a couple weeks.

[trackmagic]

In my opinion people who want a basic/balanced game that they can just follow the rule book should play 1942. Global 1940 is an advanced version of the game and many advanced A&A players like to make house rules. Did you guys figure out the J1 attack or any of the other “bugs” on your own or did you find out about them by searching these forums? If you came up with those strategies on your own then more power to you. However, playtesting cannot compete with the army of players that are on these forums so once a powerful strategy is discovered by somebody then the news spreads pretty fast.

If playtesters played every possible scenerio to test it, then it would take 20 years for the game to be released.

[almashir]

Reading through earlier posts I saw references to a fix for “missing Tac bombers” in Pacific1940.  Does this mean there were supposed to be more than 6 Japanese Tac bomber pieces included?  If so, does it also mean we can contact the company and get the missing pieces sent to us?

[reloader-1]

Yes! They will send 6 more tacs free, and a new battleboard.

[gamerman01]

But Larry has come up with “alpha” setup for P40 now, and so you may not even need the extra 6  :lol:

2 of the 6 that WOTC sent me were crap (about to break), but I was happy for the 4.

With Alpha setup for P40, I think Global 1940 is a complete success.  I’m already thinking about what I would do about an American complex in Norway (first of all - if you take it over once it will smash it back down to a minor).  Point is, there are counters to things most times, like IL said.

All this talk about P40 being tilted toward Axis and E40 being tilted toward Allies so that G40 would be balanced is just ridiculous, IMO.  And you love your A&A Classic?  That’s nice - there were MAJOR fixes to that game.  The Axis need a HUGE bid, and/or alternate victory conditions, they need a Russian restricted attack, super subs, jets, etc etc.  A&A Classic was severely unbalanced, but I didn’t detect that until after I got used to it, got good at it, and finally realized the Allies win every time.  But a Russian restricted attack changed that quite a bit.

Do you really need your game to be perfect out of the box?  Then go buy a game of Monopoly or Risk.  A&A is as much art as it is science.  And when you think you know it all, challenge me to a game on-line and we’ll see.  :-)  Bet you blame the dice when we’re done.  :-D

[MaherC]

once again an example of a fanboy defending the gods rather than seeing that the MAJORITY of people who buy these games will not get their hands on extra tac bombers, updated rules/setups.

the game was not released as final.  we paid for a beta.  LH may have been creative in the 80s, but it’s 2010.  Even Brett Favre needs to hang it up eventually.

the money we spent on the 2 games is not a drop in the bucket.  If it is for you, feel free to contact me for my paypal info and you can buy me out, and I’ll shut up about the subject.  You guys can come up w/all the optional setups and house rules you want to make the game balanced.    Setups and rules that the majority of AA players will not know about.

[gamerman01]

@MaherC:

Setups and rules that the majority of AA players will not know about.

First, I don’t appreciate being called names.  I just have a different perspective than you.

Second, your beloved A&A Classic was a “messed up game” out of the box by the criteria you’re using to judge these recent games.  Allies should win every time after you figure out how to play.  So why not rip on Classic?

P40’s a good game OOB.  If you don’t like it, change the rules and make your own house rule.  Apparently you need to be spoonfed with a perfect game that you don’t have to tweak in any way whatsoever.  There are great games called “Chess” and “Monopoly” that need no tweaking whatsoever.  If you don’t like it (1940 games), fine.  You’ve said your piece.

Next!

[almashir]

Cool.  Thanks for the info.  I’ll contact Wizards of the Coast.

[trackmagic]

@gamerman01:

@MaherC:

Setups and rules that the majority of AA players will not know about.

First, I don’t appreciate being called names.  I just have a different perspective than you.

Second, your beloved A&A Classic was a “messed up game” out of the box by the criteria you’re using to judge these recent games.  Allies should win every time after you figure out how to play.  So why not rip on Classic?

P40’s a good game OOB.  If you don’t like it, change the rules and make your own house rule.  Apparently you need to be spoonfed with a perfect game that you don’t have to tweak in any way whatsoever.  There are great games called “Chess” and “Monopoly” that need no tweaking whatsoever.  If you don’t like it (1940 games), fine.  You’ve said your piece.

Next!

Yep…

[MaherC]

@gamerman01:

@MaherC:

Setups and rules that the majority of AA players will not know about.

First, I don’t appreciate being called names.  I just have a different perspective than you.

Second, your beloved A&A Classic was a “messed up game” out of the box by the criteria you’re using to judge these recent games.  Allies should win every time after you figure out how to play.  So why not rip on Classic?

P40’s a good game OOB.  If you don’t like it, change the rules and make your own house rule.  Apparently you need to be spoonfed with a perfect game that you don’t have to tweak in any way whatsoever.  There are great games called “Chess” and “Monopoly” that need no tweaking whatsoever.  If you don’t like it (1940 games), fine.  You’ve said your piece.

Next!

Once again you miss the point.  FOR 90$ YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO CHANGE THE RULES OF A GAME OUT OF THE BOX TO MAKE IT PLAYABLE.

J1 / J3IC actually MAKE pac40 very much like the chess you tell me to go play.

Next time you go to buy a car, drop 20,000 and tell them you don’t need the body, you’ll tweak some cardboard into one.

[MaherC]

Would love to see sales figures for P40/E40/G40.  If 600 copies were sold, then you are completely right.  There is no need for the game to be good to go out of the box.  AA is a small, niche market, 90% of which reads these forums.

But if in some crazy attempt to actually turn a profit WOTC was trying to produce a game for more than those of us who read these forums…

EPIC FAIL.

[dadler12]

I agree with gamerman and yoper. I think its very obvious, especially if any of you have worked for or with a corporation, that quality does not matter 1% as much as meeting deadlines and maximizing profit margins. Short of Larry Harris totally producing his own game (the cost to him would be gargantuan and guess what, it would be passed on to you the consumer who is already complaining about buying a game priced at $180, imagine buying one at $350-$500).  If you don’t like the game, you have two options. 1. Contact WOTC or the store which you bought it, vent your grievances, and demand a return. 2. Channel your anger into something constructive, like the project to attempt to balance the game. Everyone has a right to bitch but some people on here are way past that point and are simply beating a dead horse. I think Global 40 is balanced OOB and the “alpha setup” makes for a similarly balanced games as well (for the record I’ve played 6 games of Global so far 3 oob, 1 with the air force reduction change, and 2 with alpha). If you’re so sure Larry Harris is like Brett Favre (who sucks and is an egotistical baby) I dare you to create a better game that can actually be sold on a mass scale like Axis and Allies. Return your game or help fix it. Stop insulting people and whining.

[MaherC]

Tell you what internet tough guy, you win a Super Bowl, 3 NFL MVPs and earn 100s of millions of dollars and I’ll make a game as good as LH’s.  Oh? you can’t play in the NFL?  But you can still have an opinion about a player in it?    Funny, you said I can’t say these games are garbage and LH has lost his touch according to your rules unless I myself can do better…

Pay 350 for a game that actually works?  You got it.  Some of us aren’t using our allowances here.  Paid $100 for AA50, $160+ for these 2 games, silly me for expecting MORE from G40 (touted as the MOSTUS EXPECKUS GAMEZ OF 4X!S n 4||i3Z EVUR! by all the fanboys).