M84 Varients

[Jennifer]

First off, I believe M84 is a very underhanded way for the Axis to steal victory from the Allies. I am sure that a majority of you do not view it this way, but a game loss (for me) to this rule really kind of saps the fun from the game.

With that said, here’s some ideas I had on the rule to make it less of a steal in my mind:

1. The Axis must announce they are attempting an M84 victory at the start of the round. (For online games this could be the start before Germany’s turn since USA and USSR may go before Germany can see the board. Otherwise, it should be before USSR’s turn.)

2. They must control 84+ IPCs in land value by the beginning of the next turn. (ie, if it was announced before USSR, then just before USSR goes again, or if it was just before Germany, just before Germany goes again.)

3. Failure to retain control of 84 IPCs will cost both nations 8 IPCs, same rules on payment as if they were hit with an SBR.

4. If the Axis should break the 84 threshhold without declaring at the beginning of the round their desire for M84, then M84 does not take place.

5. A bid for M84 may only be declared once per game.

Now, bear in mind that it is way too easy to get an M84 victory. 5 Tanks in Africa (Egypt) will net you 11 IPCs in just one round! You can’t possibly maintain your control of Africa with so few units if the allies want it back, so you really don’t control it - you just occupy it (in my mind.)

The thought behind the declaration of intent and the holding of the land is so that you have sufficient forces to actually hold your land. If you can hold it, then you control it and if the Axis have such strength that hte allies cannot drop them below 84, then they will most likely win.

Also, the limit of one try for M84 is kind of reminiscent of the Battle of the Bulge to me. It can be declared as the last ditch effort to grab resources before conceeding defeat, even if defeat is not the result.

It also makes it so the allies arn’t trying to keep M84 from happening EVERY round and allows for them to make longer range plans.

[Linkon]

I think it is a valid way to end a game vs a stubborn / drunken Allied player _ after _ taking over Russia.

[Jennifer]

True, but with the fall of Russia you would be in a position to declare that you want an M84 and be able to hold it. After all, with Russia gone you should have 25 IPCs from Japan, 24 from Russia and 32 from Germany at the very least and that’s not counting anything from Africa, Asia Minor or Southern Asia / China. So you’d have 81/84 IPCs and only need to secure India to have your 84.

What I dislike seeing is that mad dash of a loosing Axis player to get M84 and steal victory from the Allies when they are in no way even close to being able to win, or stave the allies off for a few more turns. I’ve seen way too many tournament games ended prematurely by that underhanded maneuver. For instance, the game just before I thought up those rules, the Germans were reduced to no aircraft or armor in Europe, but held Africa. Russia had 18 tanks with the support of around 100 allied infantry vs about 50-ish germans. Japan had been stalled at Yakut SSR but held some strong ground.

The Axis won that game because Japan took Australia to get M84. We can all envision the board (somewhat) and come to the same realization that had the Allies had but one more turn the axis would have been severely weakened with the fall of Ukraine, E. Europe, Caucasus, SFE, Manchuria and Sink/China soon after.

So, what I’m trying to do is establish a way that the Axis can have an M84 victory when they are winning and not as a last ditch effort to stave off defeat.

[Linkon]

So was M84 for that game at the end of the Japan turn?

Most of the boards I peruse set M84 at the end of the USA turn. This is quite fair and acceptable since the round of 5 nations ends with the USA.

A true sign of Axis power would be to set the M84 at the end of the Russia turn.

Your loss to M84 must have been a pain. Yet when you play Axis, I’m sure it bugs you that key territories like Spain and Kar get stacked to the point where the tide turns viscious without any combat. Gettting M84 is like contorting yourself out of the Allied death grip before it closes in.

[dezrtfish]

I don’t like the magic 84, I don’t use it in my games. I play until one side realizes the futility of resistance.

[Jennifer]

There are times you need an M84 style condition so you arn’t forced to take an island nation when you control most of the board.

The M84 in the game above was after USA, however the US wasn’t set up to attack, only support Russia at the time and had no fleet units in the Pacific to counter Japan’s move. Realistically speaking, no one was even paying attention to the M84 until Japan called it after his turn.

What if you made it M110 instead of M84? (110 being the magic number for the allies to win in the CD-Rom.)

[ydavid]

Hey,

Normally my friends and I don’t play M84, but I can think of two things you could try. Turn the required IPC value up, I’m not exactly sure what would be fair but placing it somewhere in the 90s might do it. The other thing is to require them to acquire and hold the M84 (or higher) value thru two turns. Or, another way is to say if they reach M84 during a round, then you play through the next. So if they get to M84 on Japan’s move in round 11, they have to hold it thru round 12 to get the win, etc. At least this prevents them from blitzing thru empty territory of little value and winning before a counter-attack can be sent.