Thanks Panther that is what I thought.
Blockhouse Talk 101
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Here are the actual reprinted rules from AA D-Day. Use this and come up with something based on the designers intent.
Blockhouses
Only the Axis has block houses.
Block houses do not move. They fire
in combat against land units in their
zone just as other land units do,
attacking on a 3 and defending on a 1.
Blockhouses also can make a special
targeted attack out to sea, directed
by order card 9. Each blockhouse
may fire once at an Allies land unit
in a beachhead box within its firing
arc. For example, the two
blockhouses in the zone containing
Bayeux can each fire on land units in
the Gold Beach box. (Not all blockhouses
are in a zone with an adjacent
beach head box.) A roll of 3 or less is
a hit. Each block house can fire on a
different target.Naval Bombardment
The Allies can conduct a naval
bombardment when an order card so
directs. Naval bombardment targets
only blockhouses. Roll six dice, one
at a time : A roll of 2 or less destroys
the blockhouse.The Allies choose a block house as
the target of each die roll; the same
block house can be chosen more than
once. -
Okay along those lines: Attack = 3, Defense = 1, Movement = 0, Cost = 2. With no movement capability I am assuming that attack = 3 is for when it fires at ships. So in regular Axis and Allies you would have to limit this ability to ships that are supporting an amphibious assault. I am sure there are other ideas out there that follow along the guidelines that IL has indicated, but hey it’s a starting point.
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Hello everyone, :-)
How about this:
The Blockhouse unit can make a ‘first strike attack’ once per combat round on a 3 (even though it is defending) and cannot be chosen as a casualty until there are no other eligible defending units. So, all defending units must be destroyed first, before the Blockhouse can be taken as a casualty.
It can only hit enemy land units that have attacked via amphibiuous assault (not those from overland) and cannot hit enemy ships or aircraft. The attacker chooses the unit to be taken as a casualty.
It cannot attack at all on the owner’s combat move. Only one Blockhouse per territory.
Thank you for reading, and please improve upon this. It’s just an idea - I haven’t tried it out yet as I’m at work at the moment! :-)
Lozmoid
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hey welcome to the forum! + 1 to you! do you mean block houses attack first on a 3? similar to subs first strike rule?
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So do you mean first strike as in the same type that an attacking sub has, where there is no casualty roll?
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Hello everyone, :-)
How about this:
The Blockhouse unit can make a ‘first strike attack’ once per combat round on a 3 (even though it is defending) and cannot be chosen as a casualty until there are no other eligible defending units. So, all defending units must be destroyed first, before the Blockhouse can be taken as a casualty.
It can only hit enemy land units that have attacked via amphibiuous assault (not those from overland) and cannot hit enemy ships or aircraft. The attacker chooses the unit to be taken as a casualty.
It cannot attack at all on the owner’s combat move. Only one Blockhouse per territory.
Thank you for reading, and please improve upon this. It’s just an idea - I haven’t tried it out yet as I’m at work at the moment! :-)
Lozmoid
The blockhouse owner should be able to decide when to take it as a casulty.
I am not for the limit of one.
Blockhouses should also be able to defend against ground assaults.
Other than that I like your idea.
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Hi guys,
Thanks very much for the welcome and for your cool feedback! :-)
Yes, the Blockhouse gets a ‘first-strike attack’ - exactly the same as submarines, i.e. it fires once in the opening fire step, and on a roll of 1-3, a casualty is selected among the attacking force and eliminated before it gets to roll its attack. Then the attacker rolls for all attacking units, and the defender rolls for all defending units (but not for the BH as it has already fired). And the BH can do this every combat round!
Okay - I now agree that the BH should also be able to fire upon land units coming from overland (not sure why I was just thinking of beach defences.) However, as much as I love the idea that the defending BH can pick its target casualty, I just feel that this could be too powerful… I don’t know. I think that’s why I suggested just the limit of 1 BH per territory. It will remain a major threat as long as there are still some surviving land units in the defending tt, as it is chosen last - just like a Transport.
I might add that the BH can be hit by attacking enemy land or air units, and cannot be hit by sea units at all. It may not even be selected as a casualty as the result of Shore Bombardment. However - and get this - as the BH cannot hit air units, it can be easily destroyed by enemy air units if left undefended. Just like when attacking a TT, there is no need for the BH to roll a die - just remove it from play! :-D
That’s all for now. Thanks again :-)
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All right Lozmoid. Now you’re talking. I like your new presentation. Welcome to the jungle. A +1 to you. Now let’s listen to all the smack from the others about your idea.
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Thank you Brain Damaged. I’ve been roaming these boards for months and just felt it was time to get involved. Been playing Axis & Allies for about 8 or 9 years now and own one copy of each game: 1984 MB edition, A&A Europe, Pacific, Revised, D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, Guadalcanal, A&A50, A&A1942. Can’t wait for the new P40 & E40 games! I also got into the miniatures for a while but found it too costly.
So, to recap on the Blockhouse unit:
Cost: ?
Move: 0
Attack: 0
Defend: 3First Strike: This unit rolls its defence die during the opening fire step, and on a roll of a 1-3, a casualty is selected (by the attacker?) from the invading force and removed from play. Combat then resumes as normal, with the attacker rolling for all units attacking etc.
Chosen Last: This unit cannot be destroyed until there are no other defending land or air units in the territory being attacked.
Cannot Hit Air Units: This unit cannot hit attacking air units, and therefore is defenceless against them when left undefended by friendly units.
Cannot Hit Sea Units: This unit cannot hit sea units as they are not placed on the battleboard in a land combat. This unit cannot be chosen as a casualty by the owner as a result of shore bombardment.
That’s it for now…
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That is quite a collection, I think from now on I will only get the full games that contain money and the ability to build units, that is haf the fun!
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Thank you Brain Damaged. I’ve been roaming these boards for months and just felt it was time to get involved. Been playing Axis & Allies for about 8 or 9 years now and own one copy of each game: 1984 MB edition, A&A Europe, Pacific, Revised, D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, Guadalcanal, A&A50, A&A1942. Can’t wait for the new P40 & E40 games! I also got into the miniatures for a while but found it too costly.
So, to recap on the Blockhouse unit:
Cost: ?
Move: 0
Attack: 0
Defend: 3First Strike: This unit rolls its defence die during the opening fire step, and on a roll of a 1-3, a casualty is selected (by the attacker?) from the invading force and removed from play. Combat then resumes as normal, with the attacker rolling for all units attacking etc.
Chosen Last: This unit cannot be destroyed until there are no other defending land or air units in the territory being attacked.
Cannot Hit Air Units: This unit cannot hit attacking air units, and therefore is defenceless against them when left undefended by friendly units.
Cannot Hit Sea Units: This unit cannot hit sea units as they are not placed on the battleboard in a land combat. This unit cannot be chosen as a casualty by the owner as a result of shore bombardment.
That’s it for now…
I think the blockhouse should be able to target naval units that are engaging in shore bombardment.
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Hmm, I think that the Blockhouse is rather powerful as it is already without being able to target ships too…
I want to start playtesting the BH unit this week but am undecided on its cost. I think 10 is about right. (Remember that this unit gets Surprise Strike at 3 and can fire every turn!) What do you guys think would be a fair cost for it?
I thought about build placement too. I expect that most people would be in favour of being able to place the BH on any territory/island that the owner controlled at the beginning of their turn. However, I did consider the idea of only being able to build them in coastal territories/islands. What are your thoughts on this?
Another idea I had recently was the possibility that the BH cannot be hit by aircraft. By this I imply that only land units can get close enough to the BH in order to be able to destroy it. That way, the BH is safe from air and sea attack as it is considered to be well concealed in the surrounding terrain…
Okay, I will see what else I can come up with… Many thanks for your comments! :-)
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Anyone think that the Artillery, AA, and Blockhouse should all be combined into one unit? Doing so would probably result in an increase in cost to 5, which would help balance the new Tank.
Artillery: 2-2-2-5
Powers
1. Gives +1 to an Infantry when attacking
2. Before the first round of a sea invasion, gets a potshot for 2 or less vs. landing units, casualties removed before rolling
3. Before the first round of any combat with enemy aircraft, gets a potshot for 2 or less vs. air units, casualties removed before rolling.In this setup, I would also gives Fighters a potshot of 3 against aircraft, and Fighter-Bombers a potshot of 1.
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As far as blockhouses go, I think we could institute something like this, but so far I’m still thinking that this will only end up in huge stalemates along the fronts. Isn’t the advantage that infantry get already on defense enough? I mean there is a reason they roll at a 2 or less, right?
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Hence my suggestion that Artillery defend against Sea and Air threats, in addition to supplementing ground offense, while Infantry provide for more general defense against Land threats.
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The artillery replaces the blockhouse is a bad idea. It does not model the french situation with the Maginot line, not account for the various pill box islands that japanese made, nor account for Gibraltar or Malta or even Singapore or Sevastopol. If you just replace the idea with artillery you have given the french countless artillery and littered the islands with stupid artillery pieces all over the map just to symbolize fortified zones with extensive defensive works.
The solution is a new piece so it can model the various types of defensive emplacements and reflect a real psychological and real desire to avoid possible bloodshed. The thing has to convey the dismay of even attempting to attack places with have these units but make them very expensive. It cannot be some silly “your artillery just do this magically and latter go back to normal”
If you guys just play out the 2 or less against all invading land units free shot first round ( rolls = with matching defending INF and ART) and cost 12 IPC, you got a sure winner. I will now have to bring in like 10 land units to over come 3-4 and the result is i hold and take the territory, rather than just making a joke about landing taking income you retake, landing taking income then you retake, landing taking income then you retake. Surely the game can be better than that.
You wont keep doing this little number, and the pleasure will cost me 12 IPC
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Okay - I ran a dozen or so mock battles last night to test the Blockhouse/Fortress unit, and found it to be very powerful. The attackers mainly consisted of 5 Inf, 1 Art, 1 Tank, 1 Ftr, 1 Bmbr. The defenders mainly consisted of 4 Inf, 1 Tank, 1 BH. In most battles, the attacker managed to capture the territory with just the tank remaining! I liked the BH having the Surprise Strike at 3 as it gave a it 50/50 chance of knocking out an attacking enemy land unit, before that unit even got to fire.
However, I looked at the scale of the main game and compared it to A&A D-Day, where the official BH piece was first introduced. In D-Day, the BH fired upon the beachhead spaces with a targeted attack (the BH picks the enemy unit to be destroyed), and hit on a 1-3. However, that was done during a special step in the game as D-Day was not played within the regular phases of the main game. But when the BH was involved in a land combat in its own space, it defended on a 1. So, I started to consider reducing the Surprise Strike down to 2, in order to simulate that not all fortresses have a height advantage. I did not like the targeted attack as I felt this was just too powerful, but am still open to the idea so long as the strength of the defence roll is reduced… How about that?
Also, I was testing the outcome of battles where the BH could not be hit by air units. This worked just fine for the defenders. But I thought that this still made the BH a bit too strong. So, to counter this I thought: ‘hits from attacking air units cannot be assigned to a defending BH unless there is a land unit(s) friendly to the air units present in the battle.’ By this I implied that fighters and bombers needed land units on the ground to spot the BH, enabling it to be fired upon by the aircraft. That could work… making a combined land+air strike all the more worthwhile.
I also tried out giving the BH ‘two hits to destroy’ and found this worked very well indeed! It kind of made the ‘chosen last’ ability a bit redundant (as most players would want to keep a unit that gets surprise strike every round and can take two hits in the battle, for as long as possible). It came to my attention that the BH could now defend a territory all by itself against a small force; and in that case it wouldn’t necessarily need any friendly units to help defend the BH, but obviously the more the merrier.
So where does it all leave us? Time to look at the Pros and Cons…
Pros…
Defend: 2?
Surprise Strike: This unit rolls its defence die during the opening fire step of every combat round, and on a roll of a 1-2, a casualty is selected (targeted?) from the invading force and removed from play. Combat then resumes as normal, with the attacker rolling for all their units first, etc.
Cannot Be Hit By Air Units: Hits scored by attacking air units cannot be assigned to a BH unless there is a land unit friendly to the air units involved in the battle.
Two Hits To Destroy: This unit takes to hits to destroy.
Cons…
Cost: 10?
Move: 0
Attack: 0Cannot Hit Air Units: Hits scored by a BH cannot be assigned to attacking aircraft.
Cannot Hit Sea Units: This unit cannot hit sea units as they are not placed on the battleboard in a land combat. This unit cannot be chosen as a casualty by the owner as a result of shore bombardment.
That’s where we are for the moment. I look forward to reading your comments and observations. Thanks everyone! :-)
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Okay - I ran a dozen or so mock battles last night to test the Blockhouse/Fortress unit, and found it to be very powerful. The attackers mainly consisted of 5 Inf, 1 Art, 1 Tank, 1 Ftr, 1 Bmbr. The defenders mainly consisted of 4 Inf, 1 Tank, 1 BH. In most battles, the attacker managed to capture the territory with just the tank remaining! I liked the BH having the Surprise Strike at 3 as it gave a it 50/50 chance of knocking out an attacking enemy land unit, before that unit even got to fire.
I assume the number of rolls is limited to the number of defending INF and ART? if so this is the correct result, invasions cant be done with even forces… you need a 1.5 to 3 to 1 to have a measurable success. This is the whole point… to eliminate these stupid “Lets land just enough to steal the territory with zero intention of actually holding the territory… just to trick the rules and claim double income”
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How about this for blockhouse units:
Grant defending inf and art +1 on all defensive rolls. No movement, 10 IPC cost, destroyed when invaded, can be placed in any territory next to or containing an industrial complex.
To try and eliminate trading with the blockhouse unit is impossible without other serious problems in a game where you collect income at the end of your turn. It is impossible. The easiest way to eliminate the trading of France is to make it not be next to germany, which is already happening. Sadly it will still contain a factory next to the beaches, which will result in it being traded, alot.
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I still like the idea of a blockhouse piece improving the defense of units in a battle. I still say that you buy a blockhouse and it improves the defense of a combination of 2 infantry or 2 artillery. Only one blockhouse per territory so we can hopefully quell huge stacks and dead zones, those are not realistic at all.
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