When do you attack Egypt?

[Veqryn]

If you were going to attack Egypt, When and with what do you attack Egypt?

Option# - Considerations
1 If you attack Egypt on G1 without your bomber, the UK will most likely be left with their fighter and possibly a tank too.  Uk will either retreat their remaining forces in Egypt and Transjordan, or Italy will be left with a small force to kill on Italy1.
2 If you attack Egypt on G1 with your bomber, then that means you do not have enough forces to kill both seazone 2 and seazone12
3 If you wait until G2, the UK has more forces for you to kill and you will need the 1inf+1tank from france on G1, plus pick up the 1inf+1tank you moved to Balkans/Bulgaria/Ukr on G1.  However you will lose fewer German forces in the attack, and will probably win with 1 or 2 tanks left.
4 If you use Italy turn 1 to attack with a few shore shots, you can reduce the UK forces by 3 units, at a cost of 4 italian land units, or you can reduce the UK forces by 2 units at a cost of 2 italian land units.  This means it will be very easy for Germany on Turn 2 to take Egypt, with or without a second batch of reinforcements from Balkans/Bulgaria/Ukraine.
5 If you use just G2, you can opt to have a fighter or bomber land within range on turn 1, this will limit your loses, but also limit what you are doing G1 somewhat.
6 If you opt not to go with German reinforcements on G2, you can knock UK down to just 1 fighter, 1 tank, 1 art, followed by finishing them off with Italy on Italy turn 2 (provided Italy’s fleet survives).
7 Or you wait til G3 or I3, which means that you had to have built some Italian fleet, or brought more units/air within range, otherwise either the Italian fleet will be dead, or you will have no reason to do it turn 3 instead of turn 2.

(there is no option for ‘not attacking egypt’, but i want those people who don’t attack egypt to consider what they would do if they DID attack egypt (or had to))

[Lucifer]

A full G1 attack at Egy is good move 4 out of 5 times, so when would I not attack Egy? the 1 out 5 times that I lose that battle… :-)

With no unit bids, I think Egy G1 is good move. Kalia G1 with is too risky with ADS, and I assume we’re not talking about LL, b/c some first rnd attacks are different odds in ADS and LL.

But even if I think Egy G1 is a the best option, I sometimes attack Kalia even if it is risky, and getting Africa for several rnds is more important than Kalia G1, Germany can take/trade Kalia G2.
I think Egy G1 is the best decision for Germany.

[DarthMaximus]

G1 with bomber for me.

Btw, I think you can still do Sz 2 with 2 subs, 1 ftr, and Sz 12 with 2 ftrs.  Sketchy battles, yes, but they can be done.

As for Egy, I think you gotta take down that Arm and Ftr, they can really cause problems, not to mention no attack or a failed attack gives the UK 5 extra IPCs for a NO, plus the 2 for holding Egy without having to risk a counter.  This means UK could be set for Capital ships and transports by the end of Rd 2.

[jemo81]

@DarthMaximus:

G1 with bomber for me.

Btw, I think you can still do Sz 2 with 2 subs, 1 ftr, and Sz 12 with 2 ftrs.  Sketchy battles, yes, but they can be done.

As for Egy, I think you gotta take down that Arm and Ftr, they can really cause problems, not to mention no attack or a failed attack gives the UK 5 extra IPCs for a NO, plus the 2 for holding Egy without having to risk a counter.  This means UK could be set for Capital ships and transports by the end of Rd 2.

my words excatly… you just cant get the NOs for Italy too early and both are usually quite achievable in round 1 for italy

[Veqryn]

@DarthMaximus:

G1 with bomber for me.

Btw, I think you can still do Sz 2 with 2 subs, 1 ftr, and Sz 12 with 2 ftrs.  Sketchy battles, yes, but they can be done.

As for Egy, I think you gotta take down that Arm and Ftr, they can really cause problems, not to mention no attack or a failed attack gives the UK 5 extra IPCs for a NO, plus the 2 for holding Egy without having to risk a counter.  This means UK could be set for Capital ships and transports by the end of Rd 2.

You can still do SZ2 with 2 subs, 1 ftr, and you will lose 1 sub most of the time.  However, the SZ12 with just 2 fighters becomes very dangerous, with a very very good chance of you losing both your fighters.  If you do it with 1 sub, 2 fighters, 85% chance of win, you will lose the sub and have 1.73 fighters left on average.  If you do it without the sub, you have only a 49% chance of winning, most likely with less than half a fighter left on average.  (battle calc).

So basically, if you do G1 egypt with the bomber, you will lose 1-2 more fighters as Germany than if you waited til g2, or did g1 without the bomber.

Still, I’m not saying thats bad, it could be worth it.  But i generally do a bit more conservatively with my airforce

[jemo81]

if the germans loose alot of planes in turn 1, then the british can be happy as they would need alot less capital ships to protect their transporters and could probably settle for supplementing with 2 carriers and perhaps a single destroyer on top of the battleship

[Sgt. Wonko]

I find it’s usually worth the risk to attack Egypt with the German forces in Libya and then transport in 1 tank, 1 infantry from France to help out.

I’ve taken Egypt a couple of times with a force that size and if not, Italy can still take it I1. There is the danger that the Egypt fighter can team up with UK bomber and put a dent in the italian fleet but then they will probably lose the bomber to the Italians.

Also, if you have any submarines left from SZ 12, 6, and 2 then there could be up to 4 seazones with German navy in it, plenty of targets for the UK air force. All in all, it’s worth the risk.

[Imperious Leader]

I want to kill the British ships on G1, so i don’t go Egypt on G1.

If UK Pulls out on UK1, I take Jordan on I1 ( with Italy) and Egypt with at least 2 planes on G2.

The net exchange on G1 is not greater than the net exchange on killing defenseless British warships on G1.

Sure i can exchange Egypt and barely take it…and let UK get away with a much larger starter fleet giving them even greater tempo than what may be lost on lowly 1 IPC territories.

[bugoo]

I typically setup for a G2 smash, either taking Gibralter or dropping in the extra units and leaving air in range.  Then the UK typically retreats and I take Egypt and Gibralter on I1.  The big thing I find helpful with making the UK retreat is I keep G units to defend Africa for the 2-4 rounds it takes Japan to arrive, allowing Italy to make its NO cash a good bit longer.  I also enjoy sometimes hitting the UK DD+Transport near canada and landing the bomber in Algeria (with a fig and the arm from Libya).  This forces the US to build defensive ships instead of just transports if they wish to play in the Atlantic, esp if the sub in SZ12 survived (rare but happens) and gives you an extra fig G1 vs Russia.

[Jennifer]

Lately I’ve been putting it off.  I’ve been using the German transport to nail Russia on round 1 with extra forces and really force them to be on the defensive early.

Italy can build up faster than England can reinforce Egypt anyway.  Sure, it means a round or two of an extra 5 IPC to England (because they have the NO) but that’s not really that bad in the grand scheme of a 10 round game.

[bbrett3]

I usually open with Germany and finish with Italy, but that’s mostly because I get annoyed when I see German units in Africa

[a44bigdog]

While I voted for I1 I generally do not attack Egypt on I1 to weaken it. If I can take Egypt on I1 I will. If not I will wait, weaken with Germany and then attack. I feel it is much better for Italy to have those 2 IPCs than Italy.

Originally I was of the opinion that a G1 attack of Egypt was a “must do”. After having a couple of these fail miserably (no hits at all to the UK forces) I began to rethink this. I still have not played enough games without the G1 Egypt attack to satisfy to me if it the best option but I do think that not attacking Egypt G1 is not a game looser.

[Twigley]

As for the UK NO. Japan can usually take that Rnd 2 via Australia if they want. So I would tend to agree. Egypt can wait. Except for the Italians, chasing their NO.

[Omega]

Last game, Italy built a first turn transport. Used their first turn to transport troops into Transjordanie (was abandoned by UK)

Second turn, hit Egypt with 3 shore bombardment, and up to 8 unit + fighter (In our game, UK did not counter attack in transjordanie, and stayed in Egypt to keep their +5 ipc NO as long as they can).

Not sure about the odds, but I think Italy has a huge advantage from its bombardment and can easily take Egypt turn 2. German doesnt need to weaken Egypt. Just stay in Libya to make sure UK doesnt attack it

Robert

[Twigley]

The only problem with the first rnd transport + TJ invasion is how do you then split your Italian forces to cover both transports. After all if you leave Egypt alone the UK can get a Fighter and a Bomber into central or eastern med SZs. The options seem to be to leave BB, CA, Trn in Central Med, which leaves CA, trn in the e med. The UK can take those out easy enough. Or you can have 2 CA, trn, and 1 BB, trn split. Then the BB is vulnerable.

Then again. I guess if you played totally conservatively you’d never risk anything!

[Veqryn]

I used to build transports as Italy, but now I do not.  I find that 1 transport is good enough, and that your object is to creatively use your italian fleet to avoid its death until at least after your 3rd italian turn.  Buy infantry and tanks instead.

[Butcher]

What happens if Britain pulls the Egypt units back on U.K.1 and forms a Persia stack by combining those units with the 3 infantry, artillary, and AA from India? Thinning that stack at Egypt, if not eliminating it, allows Japan to get past Persia much quicker and threaten the Soviets.

[bugoo]

It is a pain if they pull back, but then you blitz into africa to take the IPCs.  The allies should stack Persia anyway, and the longer you can keep there African landings from getting to Persia to reinforce, the better off you are.  Also, keep in mind Japan has the money to waste killing allies, germany does not.  And a quick counter-attack on Algeria after an allied landing (using planes in france to assist) can really slow down the allied threat to Italy.  Those German units are valuable delaying resources.  (keep in mind I’m assuming a bid of 1 inf to Egypt as I play LL on TripleA making the G1 hit on Egypt a bigger pain, otherwise yeah, G1 smash that!)

[Butcher]

The issue isn’t Japan not having enough money, it is Germany and Italy not having enough time. With a large Persia stack, the allies don’t have to spend much on slowing Japan as by the time they reach Persia. Japan will be running out of units, and will have to build up/transport units for a turn or two.

[bugoo]

Egypt has 2 inf, 1 art, 1 arm, and 1 fig.  5 extra units that could be in persia, while, G keeps 2 inf, 1 art, 2 arm in libya that could be used to counter allied algeria landings with air support from france/berlin.  I’d say that favors the axis as far as time is concerned, and time is on the axis side in my experience.