Allies lose every game.

[Octopus]

Tarkonis,

Here are a few hints to help you out. Buy more infantry (not necessarily all infantry) with Russia to absorb the German armor. Russia is designed with strategic depth, which means you can lose quite a bit before it really affects you (read: ignore the loss of Karelia). Knowing Germany’s supply lines are long, try landing British troops in Poland to cut off reinforcements to the German lines (or at least keep the German Armor from moving 2 spaces).

The map is also designed to allow Russia to cut off German forces that occupy Karelia so they may not escape.

On the Western Front, while the US takes 2 turns to get to France try timing a large British landing in France at the same time as the US landing. In other words when you take France, dont give it back.

There is an easy (cheap) way to stop the Polar Express, you just have to be imaginative to figure it out.

Explore the Allies a bit more….I see no reason they cannot win.

[tarkonis]

Thanks for all your help :) i’ll try my best to put all the advice into practice.

[Corbeau Blanc]

@General:

Hi mate,

Thanks very much for your response… and while I appreciate that you may be more versed in the inner workings and tactics of the game than I am… I don’t really understand some of your remarks.

Why isn’t India threatened?  The Japanese will take India on the next round and how am I able to take it without abandoning Egypt.  There is a carrier and a cruiser of the coast with 2 ftrs if I take it back the Japanese will re trade it with me.  What does “Deadzoning” it mean?

The Germans will Steamroll into karellia on the next turn using the bomber and fighter to assist.  Are you saying I go into Finland and let them take it?  Then my inf will be hitting on 1’s and they will have 2’s for theirs when I re take it.

I usually do buy 6 tanks but I’ve always thought it foolhardy for some reason… Thanks for setting the record straight.

I don’t see what the overall allied strategy is though… What is the aim of my game?  I don’t know how to get enough us forces into the fight to make a difference before Russia falls.  Where should UK invade?  France? Finland? Norway? Should US buy just airforce in the first few rounds to support UK?

Sorry for late reply.

• Deadzoning is an expression related to making a zone a death trap. This is normally achieved by having enough forces within range of the selected open territory to make sure that anything that finish it’s turn there is dead next turn.

In the case I mentioned you, you let them take Karelia one turn yes, BUT you have tanks from moscow within range, the forces you moved into Finland and the forces massed in archangel to hit Karelia. That’s min 8 infantry, 2 artillery, 3 tanks against a 5 armor, 2 artillery, 4 infantry if Germany move all it’s forces in Karelia and leave a gaping hole in Ukraine. Odd’s favor Russia in the subsequent turn to retake Karelia. This should lead to a simple swap from both side, with a buildup behind from both side since a clever German player will want to take Karelia and hold it, not just trade it.

• What I meant by India being not threatened in your exemple: You do have 6 units and 4 fighters within range but if allies intent was to hold on India for an IC strat from the begining, Russia would have sent in 4-6 infantry in Persia turn R1, R2 send 3 tanks +  infantry already in Persia into India before Japan strikes it. Add to that the UK egypt fighter still alive in your exemple. That’s the way to establish a proper India IC.

However, my exemple considered UK evacuated India instead to mass all it’s forces from India-Egypt to hold  Persia, capitalising on the fact Egypt forces were not taken out. ( which is still a logistic nightmare for Axis since it’s a force of 7 inf, 2 art, 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1AA gun.).

• Allies Overall strategy here would be based on Caucasus. It is the key here, since egypt lived in your exemple. With UK massed forces able to hold it’s doors, allies choice there is easy to make:

USA sink Italian fleet asap and remove All remaining pressure on Caucasus. USA secure Africa at same time, denying Italy’s NO. Helps Russia later with it’s own mediteranee landings in balkans/romania ( perhaps even Italy ) and stall Japan as much as they can.

UK build up and land in  Poland/Baltic most of the time to stress/cut German lines even more. France is taken whenever it’s possible.

Russia not having to worry about caucasus and mediteranee landings, having UK  support landings in the north, can really contest Ukraine and even trust trough Romania from Ukraine if left unchecked, achieving her +10 ipc NO while denying Germany NO. Germany will have no choices but shift her attention away from Karelia.

In short, the goal for allies is to have a strong Russia.  UK and USA act as support on each flanks of the Russian trust toward Germany. When Russia makes near if not 50 ipcs by R4, it means the German player is a very sad panda. I even sometimes build 2 russian transport at Caucasus if I see USA can protect them, makes getting the 10 ipc NO even more easy.

[Lucifer]

Deadzone, this expression is mostly used in territory trading, a very important TT we want to own, but we don’t have enough units to secure it, so we take it back and forth each rnd. This usually happens to France in a KGF. TT trading is only useful for a few TTs on the map.

I don’t think (edit) axis should win every game with good players, sometimes axis have bad luck during the first rnd, but if a side can’t win, then we should use a bid, either a unit bid or a cash bid.
Even if it helps reading good strats, what really helps most to improve skills, is to play against players who have more experience than ourselves.

[tarkonis]

Thanks very much for all your advice here.

I tried to put it into action the other day and the allies came out victorious in a 4 round axis concession.  Having said that though my friend who is usually quite shrewed played a surprisingly bad game.  I think it was because I made him think about other poweres other than russia. In round one germany sent a fighter and bomber after my bb and lost both. I bought all bombers and some fleet and sent all the bombers to gibralter from uk and us plus the uk tank from canada and 2 units from us.  This caused mass german panic seeing I had 2 BB now and units landed in rd 1.  He massed air to take them out while I bombed the italian fleet.  Japan was contained by China through indesicive Japanese play.  Uk landed in norway rd 1 but the fleet was destroyed by an all out rd 2 axis airstrike.  But the damage was done because uk linked up with russia rd 2 and retook karellia which was “deadzoned”.  The russians broke out in all area’s.

From there the germans were being outproduced from rd 2 by all allied factions and it was all over.  I didnt invade france once, with 12 tanks from russia landing in berlin the russians won the day.

The key for me to the allied push is Russia.  If you can keep the pressure off her then you have won the game.

Thanks everyone.

[TimTheEnchanter]

@General:

The key for me to the allied push is Russia.  If you can keep the pressure off her then you have won the game.

Thanks everyone.

When you put it that way, it seems so easy! ;)

[axis_roll]

I think the KGF move(s) on this thread are strong but can be countered by the axis.

I particularly like sending some of the extra japanese ftrs to europe to help hold territories germany has taken, to threaten the allied shipping or simply hold territories that need to be held, but if lost, would not cost Germany any of her own planes.

After all, Japan can certainly afford to sacrafice some of her 9 planes for the Axis cause….

[bugoo]

I agree with that Axis-Roll, in a strong KGF i also like using Japan bombers vs UK/Russia and to threaten the navies with a double tap, if the allies didnt buy alot of BBs.

[gamerman01]

I have yet to play a game (solo) where the Allies don’t get steamrolled.

Side note - I think the NO’s make it that much easier for the Axis in 1942, so I have reduced them by 1/2.  First NO met, 2 IPC’s, second NO met, 3 IPC’s (total of 5), all NOs met, 7 IPCs.

I like the NO concept that encourages you to play historically, but come on, Italy getting 22 income after turn one is ridiculous.

[jemo81]

A strategy for the allies that has a very good sucess rate for me personally, is to research for the 3 allied fractions to do the following:

US: to research EVERY round with at least 3 active dices (if you don’t get the research with the first 3 dices, buy another one the next round so you got 4) until heavy bombers and long range aircraft is achieved, and then bomb the s… out of german production + sink the japanese and italian fleets if they are still alive.

UK: build up navy hvile preventing Italy from getting both NO’s and preferably none, but one might be much more achievable. Secondly, take scandinavia in order to make the 2nd russian NO (10ipc) possible, while putting a 1-4 infantery into NWE to annoy the axis, as they need to retake the territory to get one of the german NOs.

Russia: build 1 bomber pr turn until you get 3, as this vil enable you to hit all the deadzone areas in eastern europe (where the germans need to be to get another of their NOs) at low cost (a 2 inf + 1 bomber attack will easily take out 1 inf protecting a teritory). Russian bombers are MUCH MUCH more effective than fighters, as russians should use their inf. for defence and never fighters unless as a last resort. Secondly the extra range of the bombers allows you to reach much more targets without having to land in unsecure territories. Thridly, if things are going well, you can always use the bombers to do SBR on your favorite axis enemy :)

[tarkonis]

I’m still losing with the allies to skilled axis players.  :(  Try Try Try again.

I cant get an invasion force going until turn 3 at the earliest and even then russia is on its knees. :(

[DarthMaximus]

I’ve started to notice myself getting a better feel for the Allies, it took some losses to weed out bad ideas but I’m getting there.

The early turns are magnified in AA50 and dice in rd 1-2 play a much bigger role.  That is where the Advantage comes from, not the setup.  If Ger wins Sz 2 and Egy the Adv shifts to the Axis, if Ger loses one of the two, I’d say you’re in for a 50/50 game, if they lose both Adv Allies.
Egy is more important than Sz 2 but a good showing in Sz 2 can overcome the Allied loss in Egy.

Some helpful notes:

Russia
-if you can hold Kar on R1 do it.  Bonus if you can take Fin as well.  This likely means you can attack Bst on R1
-if you can’t counter Bst, consider a UK ftr to help hold Kar to prevent a G2 attack.
-deadzone Kar if you really want to take Fin and Ger stacked Bst heavy
-buy at least 3 arm if you deadzone Kar, you can buy Rt if you feel you can hold Kar so you can use them to take back Belo/Eukr/Ukr if needed.

UK/US
-on UK 1 always buy an AC and at least 1 trn
-it is a good idea to get a US AC for the Altantic on US 1 as well.
-on UK/US 2 take Nor and place more ships in Sz 3 (or have the US take Nor on US 2)
-whichever power plans on taking Nor have the other one take Alg as heavy as possible.

From here on one power should always be sending something to the Nor/Fin/Kar area while the other takes out the Ita fleet (hopefully Rd 3) and supports northen Afr.

In the meantime the Allied ships in the Pac can all move back to Sz 56 where you can mix in a few sub buys to protect the West coast and still threaten Car Is with your UK trn and troops.

The Big Russian NO is doable, particularly if you take Fin in Rd 1 and Nor in Rd 2.

[jemo81]

@General:

I’m still losing with the allies to skilled axis players.  :(  Try Try Try again.

I cant get an invasion force going until turn 3 at the earliest and even then russia is on its knees. :(

what is your approach and buys with russia.
you usually get 30+ (i very rarely go below 30 with nos) which COULD be used to buy 1 bomber (12), 1inf (3), 1 tank for mobility and cost free blitzability(5). that costs 20 ipc total, and then the rest could be used on cheap units with a bit firepower such as 2 inf supported with 1 art at the price of 10 ipc total. Again I would recomend against buying fighters instead of bombers IF the axis is far from moscow as bombers range and kill-power are just so much better for the louzy 2 extra ipc. Of course if the axis is on the doorsteps, the 4 defensive dice for the fighters might be considered, but otherwise never if you ask me.
p.s. your are not building navy with russia are you? (joke, but just making sure)

[tarkonis]

@Fighter:

@General:

I’m still losing with the allies to skilled axis players.  :(  Try Try Try again.

I cant get an invasion force going until turn 3 at the earliest and even then russia is on its knees. :(

what is your approach and buys with russia.
you usually get 30+ (i very rarely go below 30 with nos) which COULD be used to buy 1 bomber (12), 1inf (3), 1 tank for mobility and cost free blitzability(5). that costs 20 ipc total, and then the rest could be used on cheap units with a bit firepower such as 2 inf supported with 1 art at the price of 10 ipc total. Again I would recomend against buying fighters instead of bombers IF the axis is far from moscow as bombers range and kill-power are just so much better for the louzy 2 extra ipc. Of course if the axis is on the doorsteps, the 4 defensive dice for the fighters might be considered, but otherwise never if you ask me.
p.s. your are not building navy with russia are you? (joke, but just making sure)

Yea man I R1 all sub buy! :P Just kidding  :evil:

I usually just buy all tanks.

[jemo81]

all tanks does not sound too bad. as long as you invest in some heavy firepower and don’t go all inf, then it should be okay i would say.

have you tried other approaches than the 6 tank build - e.g. the bomber approach?

[tarkonis]

Nope I haven’t tried a bomber.  I just see 2 tanks being better than 1 bomber.  What would I back it with?

All I see is in R3 is 9 German tanks on karellia and 10 German tanks in Poland.  I don’t know how to counter that without help.  I try to open the western front as soon as possible to divert some of the German panzer spam. I have started using the optional rule of closing the black sea… That way Italy cant use its units on a suicide attack to help the Germans overpower russia.  That makes it a bit fairer for russia…

But to balance it I also use the rule where you must own Gibraltar/Algeria to gain access to the med and also north west Europe to gain access to the Baltic.

My brother beat me playing allies using these rules… it helps to stop the Italians can opening the Russians for the Germans to blitz through next turn.

[jemo81]

@General:

Nope I haven’t tried a bomber.  I just see 2 tanks being better than 1 bomber.  What would I back it with?

All I see is in R3 is 9 German tanks on karellia and 10 German tanks in Poland.  I don’t know how to counter that without help.  I try to open the western front as soon as possible to divert some of the German panzer spam. I have started using the optional rule of closing the black sea… That way Italy cant use its units on a suicide attack to help the Germans overpower russia.  That makes it a bit fairer for russia…

But to balance it I also use the rule where you must own Gibraltar/Algeria to gain access to the med and also north west Europe to gain access to the Baltic.

My brother beat me playing allies using these rules… it helps to stop the Italians can opening the Russians for the Germans to blitz through next turn.

If germany is able to have that many tanks i r3, then your uk/us effort towards france seem to be in ruins. In my perspective uk and perhaps us (depending on outcome with japan and general mood) should always force the germans to divide their troops to avoid the allies getting a foothold on mainland europe (france typically).
Regarding the bomber, then you should use …infantery of course, since you are russia and have a s…load of then and they don’t cost that much. buy a bomber pr round for 2 or 3 rounds.

we never play with the optional rule of closing the black sea. In relation to the italians, try building 3 bombers in round 1 with the us, and in round 2 you can have 5 bombers in london ready to kill the italian navy. in round 2 the us could/should launch a force against north africa to prevent an italian no. Italy MUST DIE asap (and if not possible prevent then from getting their NOs as this enables the germans to forget about france and let italy do it for them). hence the 5 US bombers. perhaps even combine then with a sub or 2 to force the italians to build naval units (destroyers).

If the germans are still to strong consider SRB from london. Just realised that my comments may be quite fragmented; sorry for that. But in any case, get scandinavia asap, as it is a pain in the a… for germany to retake and you then only need 1 more territory for russia to get their 10 NO bonus.

[tarkonis]

Thanks for your help mate your comments are appreciated.

I’ll see how it goes using your suggestions.

[bugoo]

My basic plan is for the US to push in the south (africa/italy), UK to push in the north (poland, nwe, finland, kar), and for russia to push in the south (romania, ukraine, persia).  The details may change, but that is my general normal plan.

[jemo81]

@bugoo:

My basic plan is for the US to push in the south (africa/italy), UK to push in the north (poland, nwe, finland, kar), and for russia to push in the south (romania, ukraine, persia).  The details may change, but that is my general normal plan.

4 US bombers or more attacking from london r3 should be abel to take out the italian navy. perhaps coupled with some subs or as destryer or two. always a good plan to prevent italy from their bonus