China Free Mod version 0.1

[wodan46]

@Pvt.Patterson:

that woud make it a more even battle but you would also have the CCCP breathing down your nech with up to 9 inf. Thats bad for teh lighting war japan needs to out IPC the US.

That’s the point.  Without this mod, Japan out-IPCs the US while easily crushing East Asia, which is highly Unrealistic.  This makes China both a significant threat and a more valuable target

@Pvt.Patterson:

Looks good on paper. tweek it a bit more see if its possible to give china a fighting chance without tottaly bogging down the jappanesse.

In case you don’t remember, getting bogged down is exactly what happened to the Japanese, not Japan going Hulk Smash and conquering Eurasia by itself.

Japan needs no extra troops.  Capturing China is much harder, but doing so allows them to win even if the US is closing in.  Their best bet would be to not capture the Philipines, instead landing those 4 Infantry, 1 Artillery, and 1 Tank into East Asia, while producing 3 Tanks.  Following turn, they land 3 Infantry and 3 Tanks into East Asia while capturing the Philipines.  They focus on capturing Suiyan, Fukien, and Kwantung turn 1, then move those guys to Hupeh turn 2 and Sinkang turn 3.  Excluding losses, you will have 12 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 4 Tanks, and an indeterminate number of Air units to hit Sinkang.

[Pvt.Patterson]

Sounds pretty good but i still think that an art or two on the mainland would help it a bit. Mabye the Phip would not fal but they should be threatened by sometihng alon with India.
Mabye slow the japanesse down two turns trowdrs india or asue land or phip

[Funcioneta]

In fact, I’m a bit worried of China being still in trouble without the aid of the good old India IC in 1941 scenario (that can fall easy anyway), but that is for testing is needed

1942 should be balanced now, but It needs testing to confirm

Note that you can still kill 4 chinese territories at start, the difference is that now have a opponent for Japan instead a mere sparring. Japan’s strats should involve cutting Burma Road as soon as possible (and maybe a SBR campaign on Chongquing), so maybe it’s better kill 3 of China and Burma in J1 instead 4 of China

AABattlemap module will be soon. I only have to add the NOs boxes and I’m done. Thanks, Holkann!  :-)

[Funcioneta]

The China Free Mod, 1941 scenario module for AABattlemap is ready! I checked it and it’s fully operative. I need learn how to work with mediafire or such to upload files, but until that, you can ask me sending you the module by e-mail

I must give credit to Holkann for aiding me in the art of modding AAbattlemap. Thanks, Holkann!  :-)

In advance to any willing test the mod: the space in bottom of screen for cash, tech and such must be shared for China and USA; there is no problem about that (there is room for both). Also, damage counters must be represented as chinese ICs as it uses old tools file (use jap ICs for damage in chinese ICs).  The module needs some more polishments, but I’ll wait until the final version to do it. Anyway, it works and it will show all proper sums of IPCs rightly

Test it and have fun!

[wodan46]

I vote that the China Free Mod should be combined with the mod that gives Italy control of Italian East Africa, Germany control of Northwest Africa and Madagascar, and puts Infantry in all territories of Africa.  Just as the China Mod makes China into a legitimate front, the other mod makes Africa into one, rather than a simple Axis push through Egypt while Allies push in through Algeria.  As a result, you get to have 3 large ground battles going throughout the game instead of just 1.

[Funcioneta]

It can be an option if the mod finally shows giving advantage to allies. Another option would be deleting starting all USA’s bombers

Also, it’s a good idea for a 1940 scenario (after the fall of France)

[Funcioneta]

The mod is now available to download in this link. It includes rules (in a text file) and the module for AABattlemap  :-)

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=26312799906dce73d8f14848abf485dde04e75f6e8ebb871

[Perry]

Nice Functioneta!

[Upside-down_Turtle]

China wasn’t even that powerful in the Korean War.  Remember the Sino-Vietnamese War in 1979?  Vietnam was invading Cambodia when China invaded from the North, and Vietnam won!  They held off the Chinese, and held Cambodia.  This Mod China seems like it could invade Japan by itself!

[Funcioneta]

If China manages the fading sun NO, the chances are that USA will be able of invade Japan first

But I don’t think China is so powerful. After all, Burma Road should not be able of hold more than two rounds if Japan makes a sustained assault, even with USA building fleet. 3 or 4 infs each round is not much, China spammed Japan with tons of soldiers in real life, and for sure this is more realist than a Japan that can kill China round 1 and blitz tanks for mountain areas of inland China  :|

Also, compare this new China with Italy. In vanilla, the minimal for Italy is 3 infs/round, and in first rounds they can build even 6. Compare this with the probable maximun of 1 if Japan spares a bit them, and zero if Japan does that they must do. I cannot conceive a Italy building 3 to 6 times more inf than China in real life, and even a 1 to 1 basis as in this mod is not realist

And we need a boost for allies in this theater, so add balance reasons to historical reasons

[Guest]

How about restricting China to just purchasing infantry to account for them not being an industrialized nation?  I know they used a few crappy early war Russian tanks but I wouldn’t count that as a full tank unit on the battle board which is probably representative of a corps.  And perhaps let them ‘repurchase’ the Flying Tigers if they are ever destroyed.  This makes China a mainly defensive force unless Japan goes light into China (due to a heavy US push) or the SU or UK give assistance for real offensive capabilities (after the Japs have been softened and thinned out by attacking the hordes of defending Chinese conscripts).

[Funcioneta]

It’s better keeping same rules for all nations or different rules for all nations. For historical accuraccy we should also forbid jap tanks blitzing chinese mountain zones (or even russian marsh or Siberia). Making China the only exception to normal rules (and only to give them disadvantages) is bad. As we Spanish say: or all moors or all christians

[farmboy]

Hi  Funcioneta,

thanks for designing this. It looks like it is going to solve the problem I was going to have tomorrow of having too many players. I was just curious if htere were any updates on this, any tweaks or a sense of how it effects game balance?

[bigbadgoo]

Hey Funcioneta,

I haven’t played your China mod, though I am very intrigued by it, if for no other reason than I think China is ridiculously weak in this game given the punishment they endured without being completely taken over in the real war.  I think you are right about the fact that having different rules for different nations makes the game very unwieldy, especially if we are simply trying to be more historically accurate…I mean the Soviet Union wasnt set up to build any aircraft carriers in the real war either.  Have you ever played or seen the Axis and Allies knock off, World at War by Xeno games?  It had a lot of the same improvements that the Anniversay edition now has, such as a separate Italy and a separate China (even a quasi separate free France).  The way they tried to deal with the whole historical accuracy vs. game play issue was to give everyone basically the same rules, but to change the IPC costs for units for each country.  For instance, American and Germans could build subs cheaper than the other nations.  With China, their inf only cost 2, but all of the other items cost more.  So they COULD diversify their army and attack, but the backwardness of their industry is represented in the costs represented.  The cheaper inf cost allowed them to slow down the Japanese in a much more similar fashion to the real war…the Japanese could capture about half of the country usually, and then it just became to costly to advance and it was easier to hem the Chinese in and conquer other places than to pursue costly attacks for territories of questionable value.  Of course the Japanese player could and did take over all of China, but it was much more fluid a situation than in Axis and Allies…as it is now the only way that China remains unconquered is by a collossal error on the part of monster Japan.  I know it gets liberated by the allies in the games the allies win…but seems to almost never remain a player the whole game.

Anyway, I am not suggesting that to you, just that other people have tried dealing with the same problem with China as well.  I hope to get to try your mod out at some point.

[Funcioneta]

@farmboy:

Hi  Funcioneta,

thanks for designing this. It looks like it is going to solve the problem I was going to have tomorrow of having too many players. I was just curious if htere were any updates on this, any tweaks or a sense of how it effects game balance?

I’ll update to 1942 scenario next June

I think Japan should prevent China gets Burma Road NO more than 2 or 3 rounds. Also, UK could have a chance of holding a India IC if enough soviets are sent to defend, but I’m not totally sure. Obviously, Japan should not attack more than 2 chinese territories J1 in this mod, since the reward is not so big as in vanilla. The mod is well suited for a balanced (also named KJF) strat

Don’t buy many costly units with China, one art or tank will be enough each turn. Also, China can roll tech, but I don’t think is a good idea

My main fear is a japanese SBR campaign toasting chineses, but they should buy at least a couple of units each turn (for that reason I converted Sikang to a 4 IPCs territory instead 3)

Japs should try conquer chinese capital before USA’s navy gets too big. And euro-axis must be agressive this time instead turtling, since they have a better chance against UK+soviets

I’m not sure if KGF is possible. China alone cannot hold much time against japs, and they give a big fat IC near to novo to the japs if lost. There is much to lose for allies in Asia in this mod

[Funcioneta]

@bigbadgoo:

Anyway, I am not suggesting that to you, just that other people have tried dealing with the same problem with China as well.  I hope to get to try your mod out at some point.

Interesting points. I didn’t play WAW of Xeno, but i think I saw the board one time. I was huge and seemed good!

Well, I plan playing some China mod games later June when I have more time (I would love a multi-player game, even if I’m stuck with China in a 7 players one). You can join then if you like  :-)

[WILD BILL]

Hi Funcioneta, I was wondering if you have had time to play test the China mod the last few weeks. I think your right China is to week. I think loosing the flying tiger in 41 before you get to move it to safety is just silly, I haven’t played much 42. Here are some other thoughts for you to look over. Some have posted concerns about China having a capital IC, as it wasn’t an industrial nation. Instead of a capital make it a wartime headquarters (HQ). China doesn’t make units in a factory, it simply stores equipment (IPC’s) and puts together ready to assemble units that it gets through its NO’s or LEND LEASE. You could allow the US to lend lease ($) to China via transport ($5) or bomber ($3). LL$ would have to make it to HQ to mobilize units. $ could be captured by Japan. You could also make the HQ mobile to avoid capture. Maybe only allow China to mobilize 1 unit per turn. Allow China to mob any # of art, but limit it to only 2 arm & 2 ftrs at any given time, that can be replaced. You can still mob inf same as oob rules, or round up as long as you still control HQ. I would definitely place the HQ on Sikang (Chungking) with maybe 1 inf, 1 art, 1 AA gun and move over the flying tiger as well in 41. If you don’t increase the IPC value of Sikang Japan would only be able to SBR it for $1. If you wanted to funnel more money into China you could add more NO’s like if allies control French Indo, Kiangsu or Manchuria, China gets a bonus equal to those countries IPC values. This would open up more supply routes and give them a morale boost. Could include certain sea zones with those countries to get bonus. Maybe if China moves its HQ to Kiangsu or Manchuria it could assemble units equal to those IPC values, but that would be risky and SBR would be higher. If you lose control of HQ you would have to have say at least 5 originally flagged Chinese countries to re-establish HQ?  I’ve also thought about a house rule that Japan has to completely conquer China before it can attack Russia, but thats another tread. Thanks for addressing China and I look forward to your testing results or thoughts on these suggestions.  WB

[Funcioneta]

I’m ready to test again a game with my mod since I’ll have more time from now. 1941, NOs, techs on. You can pick any side you want (or make a multiplayer if needed)

(I’ll try make 1942 module as soon as I can, and I could make a small change in North America area to prevent ignore Japan strats)

[spectre_04]

I like the China mod Idea, would like to give it a try.
However, I think these might be some possible options for the House rule.

1.  China can only purchase Infantry and artillery,  perhaps add a new unit, Cavalry!  at 2,1,2,4?
2.  U.S. is and Russia can fly aircraft to chinese capital, on subsequent turn they become chinese.
3.  Japan should start with a bomber and an extra sub or destroyer in 41 and an extra carrier and f2 fighters in 42 to balance this out.