A&ARe (Enhanced) tech rules in AA50


  • Thanks for the intitial list.

    Oh the top of my head I can not see rockets as a minor tech.  Perhaps moderate.

    I do like that radar adds an AA gun to the BB, so that would make it a moderate as well with that change.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I dropped Rockets to Minor because they have lost a lot of strength in this incarnation.

    For instance, Germany only owns 1 AA Gun vs Russia who has 2, England who has 3, etc.  Meanwhile, the nations that own more than one gun, can only hit one place with it realistically.  Germany only has the one complex, so you can’t hit them twice! (To clarify what I meant.)

    Also, new guns are 6 IPC now, not 5.  That detracts from it’s value as well.

    Then there is the counter balance of Improved Factories and War Bonds that negate and reverse the affects of Rockets.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s not worth having, but when compared to the other 11 technologies, I think it’s luster is a bit lower.

    BTW, I would add AA abilities to all Battleships and radar would apply if you had it. Not sure if you caught that or if you thought radar was the only way to get AA Guns on Battleships.  Obviously, only 1 gun in a sea zone could fire, so it wouldnt matter if you had 1 battleship or 1,000 battleships.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Looking to put together a “beta” version for AA50 over the weekend.  It’ll be very heavily borrowed from the Revised edition since many of the rules would transfer nicely.

    I’ll consider adding in a couple new units as well, to add some deeper dynamics to the game.  We can always ask Holkann, very nicely, to add the new icons to the game for them. (think I might even have a version of battlemap that has some extra icons…)


  • @Cmdr:

    BTW, I would add AA abilities to all Battleships and radar would apply if you had it. Not sure if you caught that or if you thought radar was the only way to get AA Guns on Battleships.  Obviously, only 1 gun in a sea zone could fire, so it wouldnt matter if you had 1 battleship or 1,000 battleships.

    I caught that and I do not like that. 
    BB’s shouldn’t have AA capability unless you get radar, IMHeO.  (In My Humble enhanced Opinion) :)


  • How do you alter the cost of tech (for major/mod/minor tech) unless you can 100% target those techs.

    I do not like that ability to make a guarenteed tech instantly available (used the turn it was purchased).
    So unless you plan to turn the tech development into a Revised idea (techs active at end of player turn) then I do not think you can have targetted tech.

    And then with your system you can’t have a mix of sometimes they are instantly active and sometimes they are delayed (end of round).  By this I mean I would always pay the $6 per dice and try to get an instant Major tech.  Any of those 4 listed would be great.  Perhaps too great.


    Perhaps we could just implement the first concept of “6 dice is at the bare minimum, one tech”

    More game play testing needed, so little time


  • here is a tech chart that i made for my axis and allies game,
    start the game with 1 researcher, you may buy a researcher for 3 i.p.c. no more than 3 researcher’s,
    a dice roll cost’s 1 i.p.c.
    buy as many dice as you want, when you get to the end of the research track, the tech is developed,
    your researcher may start a new research, when the tech has been developed


  • the picture did not load, the chart has track’s, of up to 35 space’s, each tech has a different number of space’s, move the research token along the track, after the dice roll,

    if you roll 3 dice for radar and get , 3, 5, 2, the chart would look like this

    RADAR 15  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  :? 0 0 0 0 0 0
                                            ^
                                            researcher

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Obviously I would post the entire rules once I finish typing them up for review.  Right now I am more interested in getting the already existing rules into compatible form and adding in some of the changes we’ve been discussing in various threads.

    Battleships - + AA Guns (Increases with Radar Tech)
    Escort Carriers - Att 0, Def 1, Move 2, Carrier 1 Fighter, Cost 8
    Light Cruisers - Att 1, Def 2, Move 2, Shore Bombard @1, Cost 7
    Submarines - Get all the blessings (including CRD) from AARe

    Technologies come into effect at the end of the round and are 100% targetable.  Still splitting between Major/Minor based on game performance that I’ve witnessed.  I still want a three way split, but I’ll settle on two since it’s what people seem to have been asking for.

    Income is collected at the start of your round, not the end. (Should cut down on the scale of armies significantly.)

    Any of that you want to change while I mentioned it?


  • @Cmdr:

    Obviously I would post the entire rules once I finish typing them up for review.  Right now I am more interested in getting the already existing rules into compatible form and adding in some of the changes we’ve been discussing in various threads.

    Battleships - + AA Guns (Increases with Radar Tech)
    Escort Carriers - Att 0, Def 1, Move 2, Carrier 1 Fighter, Cost 8
    Light Cruisers - Att 1, Def 2, Move 2, Shore Bombard @1, Cost 7
    Submarines - Get all the blessings (including CRD) from AARe

    Technologies come into effect at the end of the round and are 100% targetable.  Still splitting between Major/Minor based on game performance that I’ve witnessed.  I still want a three way split, but I’ll settle on two since it’s what people seem to have been asking for.

    Income is collected at the start of your round, not the end. (Should cut down on the scale of armies significantly.)

    Any of that you want to change while I mentioned it?

    Initial thoughts:

    Are the new pieces really needed?

    Are subs too cheap if they get CRD?

    If you start collecting IPCs at the beginning of your turn, in conjunction with CRDs, it might get quite ugly (in addition to the new SBR rules).  You thought UK had no money before in Enhanced?


    I think the modified tech could work.  The jury is still out on three tiers, I think you might be onto something there tough.  I don’t have a good nor bad feeling about that.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    First:  IL had a brilliant idea of using Pocket Battleships in place of Light Cruisers.  They’re 4/4 units with 1 hit to sink.  I’d probably peg their build cost at 18 IPC (cost of a carrier in Classic.)

    Second:  I believe, in my heart of hearts, that escort carriers would add a serious ability to the game to split fleets up and make life more fun.  Right now, with the cost of everything, it’s harder to have two battle fleets in the Pacific.  Obviously, my efforts could come for naught, they may work out, or they may need to be tweaked.  But that’s what playtesting is for, right?

    Third:  Submarines would almost completely cease to be a combat unit in this edition.  They’re main function would be almost exclusively CRD.  I’m toying with making their defense value 0 since Submarines did not defend themselves, they flooded their ballast tanks and dove for cover as deep as possible.  If I did that, the attacking destroyers (only ships able to attack Submarines) would have to hit them to sink them, otherwise, they’d just dive for cover and be allowed to retreat one zone to safety. This would help balance their abilities.


  • Why 18? 14 is best cost. IN AA50 the BB is 20, so why is the one hit BC going for only 2 IPC less?

    I think 14 is perfect

    also, the escort carrier is perfect at 8 IPC. The small nations cant afford 14 and may not even have 2 fighters so its wasted.

    These cheaper alternatives are good for cash strapped nations who need some halfway decent navy.


  • I like the IL’s new battlecrusier idea, but what happens to crusiers? should there price/combat values decrease, maybe they should have 3 movement points or no shore bombardment, otherwise you just have two very redundant units

    perhaps crusiers should just be gotten ridof opting for a light cursier and battlecrusier unit


  • they stay at OOB.

    look at it this way a Battlecruiser or Pocket Battleship was designed as having the firepower as a battleship, but with lighter armor plating.

    Graff Spee
    Alaska
    Kongo
    Gneisenau and Scharnhorst
    Hood
    Prince of whales

    Battlecruisers shared the very large main armament of battleships, and were generally as large and costly as battleships of the same generation. They traded off armour or firepower for higher speed

    so how best to do that?

    4-4 but only one hit. Also the idea of a 3 MP ship would result of a cost boost and i dont think its enough to make sence. I prefer no ships moving 3 unless you have technology that may allow other ships to do this… otherwise having one ship do this makes it too important, when Carriers were fast as well.

    14 IPC is a decent cost…cruisers are 12…so perhaps 15-16 IPC is better but i think thats out of reach of the cash poor nations. I just want a cheap filler ship for the Axis and UK

    plus the old MB AA Battleship looks like a battlecruiser. its perfect.


  • I think crusiers should be called light cursiers and given additonal movement as well as carriers being able to move 3
    light crusiers should also not be able to shorebombard or only at 1 or 2, maybe also it should ASW

    The units are just too similar otherwise

    also, where can I get a set of MB pieces, I am a relitive newcomer to A&A  and never got the original

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Fast Carriers existed in Revised (LHTR) which allowed Carriers to move 3 spaces.  So the idea is not unprecedented.

    Here’s my idea:

    Mechanized Infantry National Advantage is changed to Fast Carriers for America.
    Super Submarines Technology is replaced with Fast Destroyers

    The problem with Fast Carriers in AAR/LHTR was that the only thing you could bring with them were fighters!  It made them targets.  However, if you could bring destroyers along, at least you’d have some fodder to go with the carriers.


  • I think making cursiers faster makes is more realistic than fast destroyers

    also why should we make subs even more useless by removing one of the few techs that help them

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Because submarines won’t be used in combat, they’ll be used for CRD.

    Also, it’s much easier to get the speed of a small destroyer up to 48 knots then it is to get the speed of a battlewagon up to 48 knots.  More realistic to have the smaller ship go faster than the bigger ones.

    Also, I should note, if you are using submarines for naval combat, you are not using them properly in this edition.  They’re really designed for harrying the enemy, which is why the destroyer is so bloody cheap!

    Giving submarines CRD would at least give them a use.

    Now, if you prefer I could make Super Destroyers take precedence instead of Fast Destroyers.  That would make destroyers attack at 3 instead of at 2, which is inline with them taking over the role of cannon fodder naval unit.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Preliminary AA50e Rules, please find holes and refine.


    AA50e : Enhanced
    Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition: Enhanced

    AA50e : Enhanced

    BASE GAME (1941):
    1. 15 Victory Cities
    -Allies start with 12/18 VC, Axis starts with 6/18 VC
    -Allies need 15 VC at the end of a ROUND (ie. US TURN) to win
    -Axis need 15 VC at the end of a ROUND (ie. US TURN) to win

    2. Bilateral Non-Aggression Treaty as Standard
    -Russia and Japan start the game with a Non-Aggression Treaty.
    -If either of the following happen:
    i) Russia attacks an original Orange territory
    ii) Japan attacks an original Red territory
    the treaty is considered “broken”, and the defender places 4 free INF in the territory attacked before resolving combat.

    If multiple territories are attacked, the defender decides which one territory gets the free INF.

    -Alternatively, if any of these happen:
    i) Russia attacks a non-Orange Japan-owned land territory
    ii) Japan attacks a non-Red Russian-owned land territory
    iii) Russia moves any unit into, through or over a US/UK-owned Orange territory
    iv) Japan moves any unit into, through or over a German-owned Red territory
    v) Russia flies Air units over ANY Japan-owned land territory or vice versa, without engaging in combat in that zone
    vi) Russia attacks Japanese Naval Units or vice versa
    vii) Russia conducts economic attacks vs. Japan or vice versa the treaty is considered “void”, and the infringed upon nation immediately places 4 free INF in its capital. The treaty is also void if either Russia or Japan’s capitals are captured, with neither side receiving free INF. If the treaty is void and broken during the same Combat Move Phase, the defender decides whether to place the INF in his capital, or in an attacked territory.
    -Actions not listed do not void or break the treaty. Once void or broken, the treaty is out of play

    3. Order of Play
    -Hire Researchers (You must hire either 4 researchers or 6 researchers on your first attempt at a technology)
    -Roll for Technology (if you roll a 1 you succeed, if you do not roll a one, you may purchase the other two researchers next round and automatically succeed with 6 researchers.)
    -Repair Factories
    -Purchase Units
    -Combat Move
    -Conduct Combat
    -Non-Combat Move
    -Place New Units
    -Technology takes effect
    -Collect Income

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    4. Convoy Raids as Standard
    -Due to their heavier dependence on convoys for shipping, UK, US, and Japan are subject to Convoy Raids (CR). These are economic attacks, conducted by SUBs, close to enemy shipping lanes (ie. near an IC). Russian and German, Russian and Italian ICs are not subject to such attacks.
    -On the UK, US, and Japan Collect Income Phases, for every Enemy SUB within 1 SZ of (ie. directly adjacent to) an IC owned by that respective country, subtract 2IPC from their collected income. For every Enemy SUB within 2 SZ of an IC, subtract 1IPC. If a SUB became submerged during this TURN’s Conduct Combat Phase, it does not do ANY economic damage.
    -Multiple SUBs may affect a single IC, with damage capped at the Territory’s IPC value. Any individual SUB, can only affect one IC/TURN, but may affect multiple ICs/ROUND (eg. a German SUB in SZ 9 cannot affect UK ICs in both UK and Canada on the same TURN. It can however, affect the UK IC on UK’s Collect Income Phase, and then the EUS IC on US’s Collect Income Phase later in the ROUND)
    -The combined total of all economic attacks (CR,SBR,Rockets) on a territory, is limited to double that territory’s IPC value per TURN. Note that Convoy Raid damage occurs on the defender’s TURN, while SBR and Rocket damage occur on the attacker’s TURN
    (Therefore, Germany can theoretically do 16 IPC damage to UK with a combination of SBR and Rockets on G2, followed by another16 IPC damage to UK with Convoy Raids on UK2)

    5. D-Day Invasion as Standard
    -Once during the game, at the start of UK’s turn, you may declare a D-Day Invasion, a combined attack of UK and US forces which occurs on the US turn. D-Day may only target France, and all attacking land and sea units MUST amphibious assault from SZ 7 (with the rare exception of land units already in Germany, NW Europe or Italy, which can attack France as per regular rules). Air units may come in from any territory provided they have enough movement points.
    -On the UK turn, conduct Combat and NCM as normal for any units you do not anticipate participating in the D-Day invasion. Any units being used on UK’s turn, be it Combat or NCM, cannot be used on the US turn. Newly purchased UK units cannot be used either.
    -On the US turn, the US player uses the remaining eligible UK units in his Combat and NCM together with his own units. US TRNs can transport UK land units and vice versa. Any UK units used MUST be involved in Combat, and in France ONLY. The only exception to this is loaded UK TRNs (and any UK land unit cargo) which can be involved in combat in SZ 7 as part of the amphibious assault. UK BBs and Cruisers not used on UK’s turn can bombard France but only if SZ 7 was empty at the start of the US turn.
    -The UK and US must agree on casualties, otherwise the defender chooses. AAGun fire is rolled separately against each nation. Techs or National Advantages (NAs) still only apply to the units of the power that has them. D-Day may not be called off once declared.
    -If France ever becomes controlled by Allies prior to D-Day, Allies can no longer conduct D-Day

    6. Price Changes, New Units And New Abilities
    -Industrial Complex is now 12IPC
    -Battlecruiser (BC) Cost 14, Attack 4, Defend 4, Bombard 4, they take one hit to sink and do not have anti-aircraft abilities
    -Destroyer is now 8 IPC, Attack 2, Defend 2, Detects Submarines
    -Bomber is now 14IPC
    -Aircraft Carrier is now 14IPC, Attack 0, Defend 3, Carries 2 Fighters
    -Escort Carrier is now 8 IPC, Attack 0, Defend 1, Carries 1 Fighter
    -Battleship is now 20IPC and is equipped with an Anti-Aircraft Gun. (Battleships with Rockets may NOT fire rockets.  Radar tech is applied to battleships.  As per AA Gun rules, only one AA Gun may fire in a territory per combat sequence.)
    -Artillery no longer advances into the area attack, Artillery fires from an adjacent territory in opening fire.  Artillery that fired this round cannot move (similar to AA Guns.)  You may not have more than 10 artillery pieces on the board at any given time. (Per nation.)
    -Submarines can no longer engage enemy submarines without a destroyer first detecting the submarines.

    7. SUB Detection
    A. SUB Detection Rolls and DD-to-detect values
    -All attacking and defending SUBs are “Undetected” at the start of Combat. Each SUB has a DD-to-detect value, which is 3 at baseline, and represents the likelihood of being detected (a higher value means more likely to be detected)
    -Only DDs can “Detect” SUBs. In the first cycle of combat, prior to Opening Fire, EACH DD in the attacking and/or defending force rolls a SUB Detection Roll. If at least ONE SUB Detection Roll is less than or equal to an opposing SUB’s DD-to-detect value, that SUB is considered “Detected”. If none of the rolls are less than or equal to a SUB’s DD-to-detect value, that SUB remains “Undetected.” If there are no opposing DDs, then all SUBs would remain “Undetected”.
    B. Detected vs. Undetected SUBs
    -“Detected” SUBs have their special abilities cancelled by opposing DDs as per regular rules and combat resumes as normal.
    -“Undetected” SUBs have 3 major benefits on the first cycle of combat:
    1. Any enemy units hit by “Undetected” SUBs in Opening Fire are removed at the end of Opening Fire, even if an enemy DD is present.
    2. “Undetected” SUBs gain the ability to submerge IMMEDIATELY after Opening Fire and thus avoid further combat. If an
    “Undetected” SUB chooses not to submerge at this time, it now becomes considered “Detected” for the remainder of Combat (including having its special abilities cancelled by opposing DDs). Combat resumes as normal.
    3. “Undetected” SUBs gain the ability to call their shots if they are the only units attacking that sea zone.  If there are ANY other units, aerial or naval, attacking that same sea zone or flying over that sea zone, or sailing through that sea zone, this ability is cancelled. (Reflects the inordinate amount of time submarine captains spent lining up shots on juicy targets.)
    This ability cannot be used to sink escorted transports.

    C. Modifiers for DD-to-detect values
    -The SUB’s baseline DD-to-detect value of 2 can be increased (positive modifier) or decreased (negative modifier) by multiple modifiers
    i) AIR Modifier (+1 to all opposing SUB’s DD-to-detect value) - Applies whenever there are any FTRs or BMBRs in the SZ of the same nationality as opposing DDs
    ii) LRA Tech (increases the AIR modifier above to +2) - no effect if no AIR present
    iii) Radar/Sonar (+1 to all opposing SUB’s DD-to-detect value)
    iv) Super Destroyers (+1 to all your Super Subs’ DD-to-detect value)
    v) Improved Shipyards (-1 to all your Subs’ DD-to-detect value)
    -Usually SUB detection will be straightforward, but because of modifiers, there are a couple of situations that can get tricky.

    • Groups of DDs with different positive modifiers - this can happen when defending with DDs from different nations. Roll each nation’s DDs separately if the values differ (eg. 5 Ger SUBs attack SZ containing 2UK DD, 1US DD, 1US AC, 1 US FTR. Assume US has LRA. UK DDs have no modifiers. US DDs modify enemy SUB DD-to-detect values by +2. In this case, roll their SUB detection rolls separately, ie. 2UK DD @ 3, 1US DD @ 5)
  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    WEAPONS DEVELOPMENT:
    -There are Major and Minor Technologies
    *Major Technologies: Advanced Artillery, Long-Range Aircraft, Increased Factory Production, Heavy Bombers, Mechanized Infantry, Rockets
    *Minor Technologies: Paratroopers, War Bonds, Fast Destroyers, Improved Shipyards, Radar, Jet Fighters
    -Your first technology purchase per technology must be at least 4 dice, but may be all 6 dice.
    -Technology automatically succeeds with 6 dice. (4:2 tech rule)
    -Major technologies cost 5 IPC per die
    -Minor technologies cost 4 IPC per die
    -Shared Technology costs 1 IPC less per die

    1. Advanced Artillery:
    -Your Artillery now fire 2 dice instead of one.  Each artillery unit still hits on a 1 or a 2 only.
    2. Rockets:

    • Your AA Guns may launch Rocket Strikes against enemy ICs. Only 1 AA Gun/territory fires, maximum range is 3, each IC can only be targeted once/TURN, damage is capped at double the territory’s IPC value/TURN.
      3. Paratroopers:
      -Your bombers may now transport your infantry in ONE of the following two ways:
    1. Infantry and Bomber start in the same territory and move together as a unit to attack another unit. (Any bombers loaded with Paratroopers are still subject to AA Gun fire and both units would be shot down together with any hits.)  Bomber may still engage in combat as normal.
    2. Bomber may move in non-combat, pick up an infantry unit, and transport him to any friendly territory within that bomber’s normal movement range.
      4. Increased Factory Production
      -Your factories can now produce +2 units per turn. (Ie, Germany has Increased Factory Production therefore they may now build 12 units in Germany.)
      -Your factories can be repaired for half cost (round up.)
      5. War Bonds:
      -At the end of your turn, during collect income phase, roll 1d6 to determine any extra IPCs from selling war bonds.  In the event you roll a 6, roll again. If you roll a 6 a second time, you do not roll again. (War Bonds increase your income from 1 to 12 IPC.)
      6. Mechanized Infantry:
      -Each armored vehicle or tank may now “transport” one infantry that starts in the same zone as it two spaces WITH the armored vehicle or tank to either combat or non-combat.
      7. Super Destroyers
      -Your Destroyer’s can now attack at 3 (defense remains 2.)  This is in place of Super Submarines and performs exactly the same way.
      -Your Destroyer’s submarine detection abilities increase by +1
      8. Jet Fighters
      -Your JET FTRs attack at 4
      -Enemy AA-to-hit values against your JET FTRs decrease by 1 (ie. to zero, unless they have Radar). This decrease also applies to Battleships.
      -Your JET FTRs gain the ability to “intercept” incoming BMBRs on SBR missions, Rocket Attacks and FTRs on Kamikaze missions. For EACH JET FTR in the territory undergoing SBR, Rocket or Kamikaze Attack, you may roll a single die at 1, to “intercept” (ie. immediately destroy) an incoming SBR BMBR, Rocket or Kamikaze FTR. This occurs in the Conduct Opening Fire phase, after any antiaircraft gun fire, if present. You may only intercept SBR BMBRs, Rockets or Kamikaze FTRs attacking the territory, but not those which are simply flying over. In the case of simultaneous Rocket and SBR attacks, the Attacker chooses casualties. Your FTRs are still able to defend against regular attacks this TURN.
      9. Improved Shipyards
      -You may build your ships at a reduced cost:
    • Battleships >> 17 IPC
    • Aircraft Carriers >> 12 IPC
    • Battlecruisers >> 12 IPC
    • Cruisers >> 10 IPC
    • Escort Carriers >> 7 IPC
    • Destroyers >> 7 IPC
    • Submarines >> 5 IPC
      -Enemy detection of your submarines gets harder, -1 to detection rolls
      10. Radar
      -Your Battleships and AA Guns hit on a 2 or less.
      11. Long Range Aircraft
      -Your Fighters move 6, your Bombers move 8
      -Your submarine detection rate increases from +1 to +2
      -Your LRA FTRs can now “escort” BMBRs on SBR missions. Escorts “neutralize” any enemy “Interceptors” (Enemy FTRs with JP) in the SBR territory on a 1:1 basis (meaning that each “neutralized” Interceptor does not fire it’s @1 shot against an SBR BMBR). If there are more Escorts than Interceptors in an SBR territory, SBR BMBRs gain partial AA protection. For each SBR BMBR that is hit, there is no SBR damage. However, another die must be rolled, with a 1,2 or 3 resulting in destruction of the BMBR, and a 4,5, or 6 allowing the BMBR to retreat. Escorts are not subject to AAGun fire in the SBR territory, though are still subject to any AA they fly over on the way.
      12. Heavy Bombers
      -Your bombers throw two dice instead of one.
      -Your bombers may now transport 2 infantry in Non-Combat Movement if you have unlocked the Paratrooper Technology.

    NATIONAL ADVANTAGES:
    1. Method of Deployment
    -Each side (the Axis & the Allies) will have a total of 4 NAs Each
    -A National Advantage may only be selected once
    -During the 1st ROUND, each nation declares 1 NA at the start of their TURN. The NA’s effects come into play immediately unless otherwise described.
    -During the 2nd ROUND, any one Axis and any one Allied nation each declare 1 NA at the start of their respective TURNS’. The NA’s effects come into play immediately unless otherwise described. However, a nation also has the option to delay their 2nd NA, meaning they do not declare it at the start of their 2nd TURN, but rather, declare it on the Mobilize Units phase of their 2nd TURN or any of their TURNs thereafter. All benefits from the Delayed National Advantage do not come into effect until the Mobilize Units Phase : All cost discounts, All unit placements, and All Combat or NCM benefits.
    – If you lose your capital, you do not lose your Mobilize Units Phase for NA purposes.
    – A nation’s NAs remain in play, even if its capital is captured.

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