A&ARe (Enhanced) tech rules in AA50

[axis_roll]

Enhanced  (AARe) utilized a 4:2 system of tech in Revised:
4 dice were the minimum number of tech dice you could buy. 
You then rolled to see if you achieved the targetted tech.

If you failed, you had to invest in only 2 more dice the next turn and
you would be guarenteed of having the targetted tech.

This maintained an element of luck as well as strategy
as you could buy 6 dice and guarentee the tech on one turn if you wanted.
How to incorporate in AA50 both the element of luck and the ‘strategy’ of tech that was achieved in AARe?

Two modifications to the AA50 tech system:

Keeping with the “6 dice give you a tech” concept:

Whenever you have achieved at least 6 researcher rolls (cumulatively), you get a tech.

This could be over 6 rounds if you only invested in 1 researcher.
or could be as short as one round if you purchase 6 researchers in one round.

Another example is to spend $10 on two researchers.  Roll the dice. 
If you fail to get a 6, wait until the next round and roll 2 more dice.
If you again fail, the next round, you will have accumulated 6 researcher rolls,
thus guarenteeing a tech development.

Keeping with the “‘directed’ aspect”, thereby allowing more strategy in tech
other than a one in six chance (random)

A player can buy off up to two tech outcomes if they so desire.  Eliminating an unwanted tech costs
$3 for each one (up to $6).  You must allocate these dollars as part of your tech development costs,
but if you fail to achieve a tech, you do not forfeit this money: these dollars that were to buy off
a tech outcome is then saved until next turn.

You do pay a penalty for ‘directed’ tech. 
The tech you end up achieving is not affective until the end of your turn.

You may still opt to not buy off any sides, (risk the super subs) and get an instantaneous tech.

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Please feel free to comment offering any solutions or suggestions.

Enhanced was built with an ‘open source’ concept where a group built a great rules set.  We can begin that same level of greatness with a AA50e rules set.

I think Tech is the first thing to fix.  Other things will be added over time.

thanks!

and Good Gaming!
axis_roll

[Jennifer]

Honestly, we’d have to divvy up the 12 technologies to determine major, minor and intermediary technologies. (6 IPC per roll, 5 IPC per roll, 4 IPC per roll with a -1 for shared tech of course.)

Then just roll tech like we did in AARe

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

Honestly, we’d have to divvy up the 12 technologies to determine major, minor and intermediary technologies. (6 IPC per roll, 5 IPC per roll, 4 IPC per roll with a -1 for shared tech of course.)

Then just roll tech like we did in AARe

forgot about shared tech.  Is that a good thing still?

Care to throw out a straw man for major versus minor techs?
Is there really a mid-tier now too?

I defer to your experience, I only have 3 games under my belt at this time.

[Jennifer]

I have like 60 some odd, I stopped counting at 61.

If I had to pigeon hole the technologies right now, based only on what I’ve been able to do and what I’ve seen done here is the break down I think would work best:

Advanced Technologies:  Cost 6 IPC per researcher and include

Long Range Aircraft (This one is just crazy powerful in this game due to it coming the instant you discover it.  Suddenly naval assets you thought were safe are artificial reefs for the fishies.)
Improved Factories
Mechanized Infantry
Heavy Bombers (Just as powerful as you think they are.)

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Moderate Technologies: Cost 5 IPC per researcher and include

Jet Fighters
Improved Shipyards
Radar (I would add this to Battleships)
Paratroopers

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Minor Technologies: Cost 4 IPC per researcher and include

Advanced Artillery (You would think this is higher, but it’s just so hard to get Artillery to the enemy in this game!)
War Bonds (I would amend this so that a roll of 6 allows you another roll added to the first)
Rockets
Super Submarines

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I would also give all Battleships, regardless of technologies, the right to have AA Guns on them and make all Aircraft Carriers two hit units.

Earlier in the game this will really help Japan, but later it will really help England and America, so it balances out.

[axis_roll]

Thanks for the intitial list.

Oh the top of my head I can not see rockets as a minor tech.  Perhaps moderate.

I do like that radar adds an AA gun to the BB, so that would make it a moderate as well with that change.

[Jennifer]

I dropped Rockets to Minor because they have lost a lot of strength in this incarnation.

For instance, Germany only owns 1 AA Gun vs Russia who has 2, England who has 3, etc.  Meanwhile, the nations that own more than one gun, can only hit one place with it realistically.  Germany only has the one complex, so you can’t hit them twice! (To clarify what I meant.)

Also, new guns are 6 IPC now, not 5.  That detracts from it’s value as well.

Then there is the counter balance of Improved Factories and War Bonds that negate and reverse the affects of Rockets.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s not worth having, but when compared to the other 11 technologies, I think it’s luster is a bit lower.

BTW, I would add AA abilities to all Battleships and radar would apply if you had it. Not sure if you caught that or if you thought radar was the only way to get AA Guns on Battleships.  Obviously, only 1 gun in a sea zone could fire, so it wouldnt matter if you had 1 battleship or 1,000 battleships.

[Jennifer]

Looking to put together a “beta” version for AA50 over the weekend.  It’ll be very heavily borrowed from the Revised edition since many of the rules would transfer nicely.

I’ll consider adding in a couple new units as well, to add some deeper dynamics to the game.  We can always ask Holkann, very nicely, to add the new icons to the game for them. (think I might even have a version of battlemap that has some extra icons…)

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

BTW, I would add AA abilities to all Battleships and radar would apply if you had it. Not sure if you caught that or if you thought radar was the only way to get AA Guns on Battleships.  Obviously, only 1 gun in a sea zone could fire, so it wouldnt matter if you had 1 battleship or 1,000 battleships.

I caught that and I do not like that. 
BB’s shouldn’t have AA capability unless you get radar, IMHeO.  (In My Humble enhanced Opinion) :)

[axis_roll]

How do you alter the cost of tech (for major/mod/minor tech) unless you can 100% target those techs.

I do not like that ability to make a guarenteed tech instantly available (used the turn it was purchased).
So unless you plan to turn the tech development into a Revised idea (techs active at end of player turn) then I do not think you can have targetted tech.

And then with your system you can’t have a mix of sometimes they are instantly active and sometimes they are delayed (end of round).  By this I mean I would always pay the $6 per dice and try to get an instant Major tech.  Any of those 4 listed would be great.  Perhaps too great.

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Perhaps we could just implement the first concept of “6 dice is at the bare minimum, one tech”

More game play testing needed, so little time

[d142]

here is a tech chart that i made for my axis and allies game,
start the game with 1 researcher, you may buy a researcher for 3 i.p.c. no more than 3 researcher’s,
a dice roll cost’s 1 i.p.c.
buy as many dice as you want, when you get to the end of the research track, the tech is developed,
your researcher may start a new research, when the tech has been developed

[d142]

the picture did not load, the chart has track’s, of up to 35 space’s, each tech has a different number of space’s, move the research token along the track, after the dice roll,

if you roll 3 dice for radar and get , 3, 5, 2, the chart would look like this

RADAR 15  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  :? 0 0 0 0 0 0
                                        ^
                                        researcher

[Jennifer]

Obviously I would post the entire rules once I finish typing them up for review.  Right now I am more interested in getting the already existing rules into compatible form and adding in some of the changes we’ve been discussing in various threads.

Battleships - + AA Guns (Increases with Radar Tech)
Escort Carriers - Att 0, Def 1, Move 2, Carrier 1 Fighter, Cost 8
Light Cruisers - Att 1, Def 2, Move 2, Shore Bombard @1, Cost 7
Submarines - Get all the blessings (including CRD) from AARe

Technologies come into effect at the end of the round and are 100% targetable.  Still splitting between Major/Minor based on game performance that I’ve witnessed.  I still want a three way split, but I’ll settle on two since it’s what people seem to have been asking for.

Income is collected at the start of your round, not the end. (Should cut down on the scale of armies significantly.)

Any of that you want to change while I mentioned it?

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

Obviously I would post the entire rules once I finish typing them up for review.  Right now I am more interested in getting the already existing rules into compatible form and adding in some of the changes we’ve been discussing in various threads.

Battleships - + AA Guns (Increases with Radar Tech)
Escort Carriers - Att 0, Def 1, Move 2, Carrier 1 Fighter, Cost 8
Light Cruisers - Att 1, Def 2, Move 2, Shore Bombard @1, Cost 7
Submarines - Get all the blessings (including CRD) from AARe

Technologies come into effect at the end of the round and are 100% targetable.  Still splitting between Major/Minor based on game performance that I’ve witnessed.  I still want a three way split, but I’ll settle on two since it’s what people seem to have been asking for.

Income is collected at the start of your round, not the end. (Should cut down on the scale of armies significantly.)

Any of that you want to change while I mentioned it?

Initial thoughts:

Are the new pieces really needed?

Are subs too cheap if they get CRD?

If you start collecting IPCs at the beginning of your turn, in conjunction with CRDs, it might get quite ugly (in addition to the new SBR rules).  You thought UK had no money before in Enhanced?

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I think the modified tech could work.  The jury is still out on three tiers, I think you might be onto something there tough.  I don’t have a good nor bad feeling about that.

[Jennifer]

First:  IL had a brilliant idea of using Pocket Battleships in place of Light Cruisers.  They’re 4/4 units with 1 hit to sink.  I’d probably peg their build cost at 18 IPC (cost of a carrier in Classic.)

Second:  I believe, in my heart of hearts, that escort carriers would add a serious ability to the game to split fleets up and make life more fun.  Right now, with the cost of everything, it’s harder to have two battle fleets in the Pacific.  Obviously, my efforts could come for naught, they may work out, or they may need to be tweaked.  But that’s what playtesting is for, right?

Third:  Submarines would almost completely cease to be a combat unit in this edition.  They’re main function would be almost exclusively CRD.  I’m toying with making their defense value 0 since Submarines did not defend themselves, they flooded their ballast tanks and dove for cover as deep as possible.  If I did that, the attacking destroyers (only ships able to attack Submarines) would have to hit them to sink them, otherwise, they’d just dive for cover and be allowed to retreat one zone to safety. This would help balance their abilities.

[Imperious Leader]

Why 18? 14 is best cost. IN AA50 the BB is 20, so why is the one hit BC going for only 2 IPC less?

I think 14 is perfect

also, the escort carrier is perfect at 8 IPC. The small nations cant afford 14 and may not even have 2 fighters so its wasted.

These cheaper alternatives are good for cash strapped nations who need some halfway decent navy.

[Emperor_Taiki]

I like the IL’s new battlecrusier idea, but what happens to crusiers? should there price/combat values decrease, maybe they should have 3 movement points or no shore bombardment, otherwise you just have two very redundant units

perhaps crusiers should just be gotten ridof opting for a light cursier and battlecrusier unit

[Imperious Leader]

they stay at OOB.

look at it this way a Battlecruiser or Pocket Battleship was designed as having the firepower as a battleship, but with lighter armor plating.

Graff Spee
Alaska
Kongo
Gneisenau and Scharnhorst
Hood
Prince of whales

Battlecruisers shared the very large main armament of battleships, and were generally as large and costly as battleships of the same generation. They traded off armour or firepower for higher speed

so how best to do that?

4-4 but only one hit. Also the idea of a 3 MP ship would result of a cost boost and i dont think its enough to make sence. I prefer no ships moving 3 unless you have technology that may allow other ships to do this… otherwise having one ship do this makes it too important, when Carriers were fast as well.

14 IPC is a decent cost…cruisers are 12…so perhaps 15-16 IPC is better but i think thats out of reach of the cash poor nations. I just want a cheap filler ship for the Axis and UK

plus the old MB AA Battleship looks like a battlecruiser. its perfect.

[Emperor_Taiki]

I think crusiers should be called light cursiers and given additonal movement as well as carriers being able to move 3
light crusiers should also not be able to shorebombard or only at 1 or 2, maybe also it should ASW

The units are just too similar otherwise

also, where can I get a set of MB pieces, I am a relitive newcomer to A&A  and never got the original

[Jennifer]

Fast Carriers existed in Revised (LHTR) which allowed Carriers to move 3 spaces.  So the idea is not unprecedented.

Here’s my idea:

Mechanized Infantry National Advantage is changed to Fast Carriers for America.
Super Submarines Technology is replaced with Fast Destroyers

The problem with Fast Carriers in AAR/LHTR was that the only thing you could bring with them were fighters!  It made them targets.  However, if you could bring destroyers along, at least you’d have some fodder to go with the carriers.

[Emperor_Taiki]

I think making cursiers faster makes is more realistic than fast destroyers

also why should we make subs even more useless by removing one of the few techs that help them