Well they would be counters for each nation in a cup that you draw randomly. say 1 inch wooden chits with a decal on it. Icons of say a tank or Battleship if the commander effects those. If you draw a chit and don’t own that piece, you just lost that advantage that turn. The next turn you draw another chit. The used chits stay out of the jar, so the design features will balance in total for both Axis and Allies…or not. Depends on the game played…
AA50: House Rules
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Well, it isn’t really “so powerful” because we are just restoring it to the defense value it had in AAR.
What I am thinking is that a destroyer + 1 or 2 transports (not sure how many would be required to up it’s defense rate, I am leaning towards 2) would be acting as a convoy escort. So you are not really rolling the destroyer’s defense, you are rolling the entire convoy’s organized defense (the destroyer AND the transports acting in concert.)
Meanwhile, of course, transports without a destroyer telling them what to do and organizing them, would be hopelessly lost. (0 defense.)
And destroyers without the added firepower from the transports (and they had SOME firepower, not great firepower, but they did have a gun I believe) wouldn’t have the added fields of fire and would fight at a reduced defense power. (2 or less.)
Notice, this is only their defense! Attack would still be 2 or less. Though, I’d be open to a suggestion it should be lowered to attacking at 1 regardless of what ships are with it!
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Lower the destroyers attack to 1 and bring on light cruisers
then cruisers should be renamed heavy crusiers and light cruisers can not shore bombard
also should all crusiers movement be increased to 3 as well as carriers, they were faster than battleships and stuff
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I thing escort ships are to small to be part of the axis and allies fleet
but what about escort carriers
cost 9 or 10 move 2 or 3 attack 0 defend 1 or 2, can carrier 1 fighter
they would be good in the atlantic for defending, while the fleet carriers would still be good in the pacific for their greater long range firepower
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Also, i don’t like the spy rules. I have played East&West, and they make a little more sense during the cold war, but even there they feel pretty stupid and don’t really add anything to the game
yes but the spy thing adds alot of the war plots involving:
Soviet Spy get our A-bomb technology
German agents operating in America
Russian agents in Germany
its basically something like another way to buy a technology… by taking the secret from your ememy. I will remind you a little of that ninja rules from MB Shogun. Just try it.
I don’t favor escorts anymore, but a light cruiser with no SB at 2-3
making the cruiser now a heavy cruiser, but i am not sure they should move 3, even if it would be my typical suggestion in the past.
I don’t like the idea of changing the values of OOB units because it disrupts the others. I think it should cost 10 IPC, which fits in Italys budget and makes a good defender.
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what about escourt carriers?
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oh jeep carriers….
0-1 move 2, carry one fighter, cost 10?
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what about escourt carriers?
Encompassed in giving Destroyers a boost in defense when coupled with transports.
Basically, Transports (2) + Destroyer = Fleet Convoy (Destroyers, Escorts, Escort Carriers, Fighters with Sonar to hunt down submarines, etc.)
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Weaker Escort Carriers for 10 which can only hold 1 Fighter? Why would anyone every buy them?
What the game really needs for naval warfare is a cheap “fodder” piece to defend against air fleets since the Sub can no longer be used as fodder and Bombers are cheaper.
That said, I would agree with making destroyers a 1 on attack and a 1 or 2 on defense for 5 or 6 IPCs. This would allow you to have the Light Cruiser piece.
If one doesn’t want to alter the OOB pieces, then add an escort destroyer with a 1 on attack and a 1 on defense for 5 IPCs.
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We have a cheap fodder piece against air units. The Destroyer. It’s the submarine of AA50.
Perhaps the escort carriers could cost 8 IPC, Att 0, Def 1, Carry 1 Fighter, Move 2.
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The solution is not to change the OOB pieces values. These were created and fit into a system whereby the alteration of one value may have an undesired effect on others. The only thing is to invent pieces inside of the current values.
Escort carrier is a decent idea, but since the real carrier is 14 IPC, perhaps 8 ipc will be great for a 0-1-2 unit with 1 fighter
Light cruiser would be a 2-3 unit moving 2 and a 1 @ SB, costing 10 IPC
Now we have two other units:
Mechanized Infantry:
2-2-2-4 unit can carry one inf or art one extra space at 1:1 basisFighter-Bomber:
3-2 unit costing 8 that SBR @ 1/2 rateFighter interceptors:
2-3 unit costing 8 that can immediately assist any adjacent attacked territory on the defense ( using its 3 value)Heavy or Elite Armor:
4-5-2 unit costing 8. you can only build one per turn. -
Can’t have mechanized infantry, it’s a technology.
I’d replace that idea with Commandos:
Call them marines, commandos, stormtroopers, whatever.
Idea:
Cost 4
Attack: 2
Special Attack: 3 First Round of Amphibious Assault
Defend: 1
Move: 1With technology they could move 2 when coupled with an Armor (Mechanized Infantry)
Treated like Infantry in regards to Paratroopers and Transports.
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@Cmdr:
Can’t have mechanized infantry, it’s a technology.
Well that depends on how much is going to be changed, is their going to be a whole new tech chart?
having a mechanized infantry peice i think adds alot, but i think tech changes should be agreed upon before changing other things,also, commandos are such a small scale unit, you could argue marine corp, SS, or Guard units should be in the game but not commandos/rangers
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I was reaching for names. That’s why I said we could call them Marines, Commandos, Stormtroopers, your SS, Russian Bears, whatever.
I’m gunna start putting together a beta AA50e (enhanced) this weekend, maybe even finish it off tomorrow.
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Well for starters this thread has already outlined the new techs. Thats why you see some of the national advantages indicating such things as paratroopers.
I have playtested my rules and its really fun option
Also i have a new idea:
Battlecruisers are a better choice than light cruisers ( use the Milton Bradley battleships)
This is …drum roll… a 4-4 unit but takes just one hit to sink! I know this is brilliant!
So forget the light cruisers…these new units could represent pocket battleships, and older battleships.
I suggest the starting German Cruiser in 41 and 42 is this Battlecruiser. I suggest the cost be at 14 IPC and it can shore bombard at 4.
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@Cmdr:
We have a cheap fodder piece against air units. The Destroyer. It’s the submarine of AA50.
Perhaps the escort carriers could cost 8 IPC, Att 0, Def 1, Carry 1 Fighter, Move 2.
I’m sorry, but with the cheaper Bombers (which I do like), Transports which can’t soak hits, AND the fact that an air force attack against a naval force can’t hit Subs, the air wins every time (as far as IPCs are concerned) against the nerfed navy. Yes, naval units are cheaper, but basically in every AA50 game which my group has played, the navys of the world have been gobbled up by air units. (Yes we do play with techs, so Long Range, Jet Fighters, and Heavy Bombers all helped in this destruction.) So, either unit costs should be lowered a little more, or if we want to keep the OOB units as they are, then just add a cheap “fodder” unit.
I agree that if you have the escort carriers, 7-8 IPCs is much more realistic than 10.
I also like IL’s Pocket Battleship/Battlecruiser idea.
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Escort carrier:
is 8 ipc and 0-1-2 unit with 1 fighter capacityBattlecruiser/Pocket Battleship:
Would be a 4-4 unit moving 2 and a 4 @ SB, costing 14 IPC, takes 1 hit.Mechanized Infantry:
2-2-2-4 unit can carry one inf or art one extra space at 1:1 basisFighter-Bomber:
3-2 unit costing 8 that SBR @ 1/2 rateFighter interceptors:
2-3 unit costing 8 that can immediately assist any adjacent attacked territory on the defense ( using its 3 value)Heavy or Elite Armor:
4-5-2 unit costing 8. you can only build one per turn.Commandos or elite infantry are a (3)- first round 2-2 unit. These move 4 spaces and this may include up to one water space. They attack to the death and can allocate unused movement points left over to “run away” they cost 8 IPC
Note: these can be sent to attack naval targets as well ( think Italian frogmen or British at St. Nazaire)Elite infantry idea #2: Representing Shock troops, Waffen SS, Guards
2-3 unit cost 4 move 1, can be boosted like infantry with artillery at 1:1 basis.Generals:
Each nation has one general ( or perhaps more including admirals)
the General (or admiral) allows one re roll in combat for a miss each round.
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I think we have to come up with a good name and idea for elite infantry if their going to be in the game because Elite armor would already represent most of what is Shock/Guard/Waffen SS is
also, IL are you playtesting these rules with the AARHE combat rules and turn/phase order or just what you have posted on this topic?
Cmdr Jennifer, AA50e beta sounds great cant wait!
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I’ve pretty much scratched the idea of an elite infantry unit and replaced it with a fast attack vehicle. (Armored Vehicle, Duece, Half-Track, whatever.)
Cost 4
Attack 2
Defend 1
Move 2This way you don’t have to kill the Technology for Mechanized Infantry.
I’m also leaning towards all Artillery being treated like Battleships/Cruisers. They fire in Opening Fire and then no longer participate in the battle, instead of increasing an attacking infantry’s roll. (However, they still defend like a normal unit.) Advanced Artillery, then would fire two shots like a Heavy Bomber.
The Pocket Battleship idea isn’t half bad. I’ve already got the map and toolpieces for the units, I can certainly fix up the light cruiser into something a bit meaner looking to represent pocket battleships.
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I’ve pretty much scratched the idea of an elite infantry unit and replaced it with a fast attack vehicle. (Armored Vehicle, Duece, Half-Track, whatever.)
Cost 4
Attack 2
Defend 1
Move 2I scratched it out entirely… too many land units ( 2 types of armor, 2 types of infantry, 1 art)
This way you don’t have to kill the Technology for Mechanized Infantry.
Well for me Mech infantry should not be a technology. Its not an invention, but just motorized transport and light tanks grouped in military formations. It should be standard unit in the game.
I’m also leaning towards all Artillery being treated like Battleships/Cruisers. They fire in Opening Fire and then no longer participate in the battle, instead of increasing an attacking infantry’s roll. (However, they still defend like a normal unit.) Advanced Artillery, then would fire two shots like a Heavy Bomber.
If you do this you need to have a thing where if it rolls a one , the attacker can declare the defending unit hit. Otherwise nobody will buy artillery and you took it out of the game. I don’t see why you want to do this with artillery…remember a turn is like 4-6 months and i am sure they can get a shot off by then.
The Pocket Battleship idea isn’t half bad. I’ve already got the map and toolpieces for the units, I can certainly fix up the light cruiser into something a bit meaner looking to represent pocket battleships.
Its like a cheap way to get that 4 and save the cash to buy a destroyer. I really think its original idea and has a more clean valuation ( 1 hit rather than 2) rather than some 3-3 (2 hit) heavy cruiser idea.
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Nah, I think people will still use Artillery. Basically, it can defend @2 if attacked or fire in opening fire @2 (or twice @2 if you have the tech) and the defender won’t be able to return fire against it. You also don’t have to pair it with Infantry so you could technically have 50 Artillery Pieces and 1 Infantry attack and get 51 shots in round 1.
Also, mech inf is a tech if you think of them not as special infantry, but special vehicles to transport the infantry. /shrug. I’m thinking like 2.5 tonnes and jeeps and cattle cars, etc. You know, all the stuff we still use today to transport infantry around enmasse!
And I think the fast attack vehicle is missing in this game. We have tanks, but tanks are SLOW. I’m even considering dropping their movement speed to 1 and letting light tanks or armored vehicles be the only ones that move 2.
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