How do subs work?

[Imperious Leader]

yes. Only the destroyer negates the subs first strike. A cruiser would go down all hands lost.

[HolKann]

Hmm, I think the DD one-to-many ratio isn’t that big of a deal. Since subs can only shoot naval units, the DD is likely to be shot first (inexpensive), so the subs can flee immediately afterwards. Even if you manage to kill 2 subs in the first turn, if the DD is down, no big harm has been done, and the rest of the subs are safe!

Another question: Imagine 3 subs are attacking 1 American DD and 1 British AC wit 2 British ftrs. Are the ftrs allowed to hit the subs in the first round of combat?

[Krieghund]

@HolKann:

Another question: Imagine 3 subs are attacking 1 American DD and 1 British AC wit 2 British ftrs. Are the ftrs allowed to hit the subs in the first round of combat?

Yes, because there is a friendly DD in the battle.

[Sondrax]

ah that reminds me of another question as well:
air units can never be subject to submarine fire or?
so a single sub can shoot down an AC with 2 ftrs with only one shot if the fighters have no place to land or? since the defender HAS to chose the AC as casualty.

[Romulus]

This is how the ryule work in Revised. The AC has to be selected as casualty the fighter can make one move to try to land in a friendly territory, if they can not they are removed from the board.

[Krieghund]

That hasn’t changed.

[Funcioneta]

A question:

1942 scenario, J1, Japan’s sub attacks australian fleet (sub, tra). Can Japan’s sub ignore the UK sub and autokill the trannie? When submerges the attacking and defending subs? Has UK sub a chance of hitting before submerging?

Thanks

[Driel310]

I don’t think you can opt to ignore one unit and attack the other. It’s either attack all or none.

Attacking and defending subs can submerge before any dice are rolled, provided there are no destroyers present.

The UK sub has a chance of hitting provided he didn’t chose to submerge earlier plus the Japanese sub has to miss her first strike roll as well.

[Funcioneta]

But seems you can ignore the subs if
you make a anphibious assault. I’m wondering if that also apply to this. Of course, it would be pretty strange but …

I liked more the old naval rules of Revised. This new are so confusing  :?

[Driel310]

Sure you can ignore the sub that ain’t the issue, but ignoring the sub the AND attacking the transport is different.

Personally I think the new navy rules add a bit more flavour to the sea battles which were pretty much totally absent in AAR.  :wink:

[Krieghund]

Driel310 is correct.  Ignoring subs and/or transports is an all-or-nothing choice.  You can’t ignore one and attack the other.  In your example, as long as the UK sub survives and doesn’t submerge, the transport is safe.

[Funcioneta]

OK. And the UK sub can submerge before anyone attacks, true? After all, it defends at 1s. Also, defending subs attack at the same time that attacking subs, true?

[Krieghund]

Yes, that’s true, but if the defending sub submerges the transport is toast.

[Driel310]

Does that mean the attacking sub doesn’t have the first strike capability when attacking defending subs?

[Krieghund]

Attacking and defending subs may always submerge before any dice are rolled in a combat round, unless there is an opposing destroyer.

[Driel310]

Yes, I understand that, but when the defending sub decides to stay and fight, the attacking sub rolls her dice. If it is a 1 or a 2, does the defending sub get a chance to fire back or is it destroyed because of the first strike?

[Krieghund]

Surprise Strikes are simultaneous.  If a defending sub is chosen as a casualty, it still gets to fire (assuming it’s eligible for a Surprise Strike).

[Driel310]

Ok thx for that big K.

I recall this being different in AAR, it happened a lot with the UK sub attacking the Japanese one in the Pacific on UK1.

[Constantinople]

Why wouldn’t the other sub be eligibile for Surprise Attack too?

[Krieghund]

It would be ineligible only if there were an opposing destroyer.  There isn’t one in the example, but I was covering all the bases.