@general-LD yes. The Sub would get to roll first and any hit would have to be allocated , before the attacker rolled his dice.
How do subs work?
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That hasn’t changed.
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A question:
1942 scenario, J1, Japan’s sub attacks australian fleet (sub, tra). Can Japan’s sub ignore the UK sub and autokill the trannie? When submerges the attacking and defending subs? Has UK sub a chance of hitting before submerging?
Thanks
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I don’t think you can opt to ignore one unit and attack the other. It’s either attack all or none.
Attacking and defending subs can submerge before any dice are rolled, provided there are no destroyers present.
The UK sub has a chance of hitting provided he didn’t chose to submerge earlier plus the Japanese sub has to miss her first strike roll as well.
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But seems you can ignore the subs if
you make a anphibious assault. I’m wondering if that also apply to this. Of course, it would be pretty strange but …I liked more the old naval rules of Revised. This new are so confusing :?
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Sure you can ignore the sub that ain’t the issue, but ignoring the sub the AND attacking the transport is different.
Personally I think the new navy rules add a bit more flavour to the sea battles which were pretty much totally absent in AAR. :wink:
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Driel310 is correct. Ignoring subs and/or transports is an all-or-nothing choice. You can’t ignore one and attack the other. In your example, as long as the UK sub survives and doesn’t submerge, the transport is safe.
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OK. And the UK sub can submerge before anyone attacks, true? After all, it defends at 1s. Also, defending subs attack at the same time that attacking subs, true?
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Yes, that’s true, but if the defending sub submerges the transport is toast.
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Does that mean the attacking sub doesn’t have the first strike capability when attacking defending subs?
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Attacking and defending subs may always submerge before any dice are rolled in a combat round, unless there is an opposing destroyer.
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Yes, I understand that, but when the defending sub decides to stay and fight, the attacking sub rolls her dice. If it is a 1 or a 2, does the defending sub get a chance to fire back or is it destroyed because of the first strike?
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Surprise Strikes are simultaneous. If a defending sub is chosen as a casualty, it still gets to fire (assuming it’s eligible for a Surprise Strike).
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Ok thx for that big K.
I recall this being different in AAR, it happened a lot with the UK sub attacking the Japanese one in the Pacific on UK1.
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Why wouldn’t the other sub be eligibile for Surprise Attack too?
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It would be ineligible only if there were an opposing destroyer. There isn’t one in the example, but I was covering all the bases.
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Krieghund you earlier said:
Attacking and defending subs may always submerge before any dice are rolled in a combat round, unless there is an opposing destroyer.
But the rules contradict that. It says specifically on p 30 that:
“If both players have submarines, all the submarines get to fire a surprise strike before taking any casualties.”I interpret that to mean that all the subs involved can not submerge but have to engage in the Surprise Strike.
Furthermore, if Surprise Strike is defined as an attack, as it is on p30, then how can defending subs engage in a Surprise Strike?
If a cruiser moves into a seazone where there is a sub, how can the sub conduct a Surprise Strike, an attack, on the Cruiser when it is the defending sub?
Furthermore, if a legitimately attacking sub uses Surprise Strike against a cruiser it encounters, and chooses not to submerge, it can use it again against the cruiser?
Finally, if there is a DD in the sea zone, the Sub has to stay all combat rounds and can not submerge, and has no Surprise Strike ability; whether it is defending or attacking, that’s the bottom line?
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Krieghund you earlier posted:
The sequence is:
1. Attacking subs submerge (or not)
2. Defending subs submerge (or not)
3. Unsubmerged attacking subs fire
4. Unsubmerged defending subs fire
5. Casualties are removed
6. Attacking non-sub units fire
7. Defending non-sub units fire
8. Casualties are removed.Where is the Surprise Strike option?
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Krieghund you earlier said:
Attacking and defending subs may always submerge before any dice are rolled in a combat round, unless there is an opposing destroyer.
But the rules contradict that. It says specifically on p 30 that:
“If both players have submarines, all the submarines get to fire a surprise strike before taking any casualties.”I interpret that to mean that all the subs involved can not submerge but have to engage in the Surprise Strike.
The rules also say that “Anytime a sub would otherwise roll the die to attack or defend, it can submerge instead.” The sentence you quote simply means that defending subs roll for Surprise Strike before casualties from the attacker’s Surprise Strike are removed, so they still fire even if they are casualties.
Furthermore, if Surprise Strike is defined as an attack, as it is on p30, then how can defending subs engage in a Surprise Strike?
If a cruiser moves into a seazone where there is a sub, how can the sub conduct a Surprise Strike, an attack, on the Cruiser when it is the defending sub?
“Attack” was a poor choice of words. “Fire” would have been better. The rules clearly indicate that defending subs also get a Surprise Strike in that same paragraph.
Furthermore, if a legitimately attacking sub uses Surprise Strike against a cruiser it encounters, and chooses not to submerge, it can use it again against the cruiser?
Yes. Surprise Strikes happen in every combat round.
Finally, if there is a DD in the sea zone, the Sub has to stay all combat rounds and can not submerge, and has no Surprise Strike ability; whether it is defending or attacking, that’s the bottom line?
Correct. However, if the destroyer is sunk, the sub gains the ability to Surprise Strike or Submerge in the following combat round.
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Krieghund you earlier posted:
The sequence is:
1. Attacking subs submerge (or not)
2. Defending subs submerge (or not)
3. Unsubmerged attacking subs fire
4. Unsubmerged defending subs fire
5. Casualties are removed
6. Attacking non-sub units fire
7. Defending non-sub units fire
8. Casualties are removed.Where is the Surprise Strike option?
Steps 3 and 4.
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Kreighund
I appreciate your responses and your patience.
I’ve got a 6 player game coming up on Black Friday and I want to be able to answer all the questions correctly and w/o frustration and w/o the flipping of pages.
So again my thanks for being “the answer guy.”
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