IC in india?

[Greand Stone]

Is it worth putting an IC in India for UK?

Points to consider:
-IC cost 15 points
-forces Uk to put land units in India every turn.
-helps japan a lot if it is taken.

+help keep china free (which would become a real pain for japan)
+stops japan from being able to take as much as possible.

However is worth it? The alternative is to put every penny against Germany/Italy?
Italy is very dependent on her fleet. Without it Italy is nothing. You could build a navy to simply kill it.

You could build one cruiser every turn untill you are satisfied. With 4 units and 4 shore bombardment, invading normandy would become easy.

[Atlantikwall]

Taking into account that bonuses cares a lot in that game I would say that entering the Mediterrannean with the Royal Navy is most necessary as it already prevents an intalian bonus.

Next, invading France will force the Italians to retake it to prevent a US bonus. Additionally, France is the key to the other italian bonus as Gibraltar is out of reach if UK-navy is in WMD (assuming that axis could take both EGY & TRJ) and important part a german bonus. So in no way the axis could afford to loose France!

What does all that have to do with the IC in India?

Well, I think that UK forces are much more needed at another battleground, namely the Med, West Europe and North Africa. Next, the IC in India would be a real target for the Japs. If they concentrate on that, they imho get it very quick. I don`t think you can hold India longer without soviet support.

Actually I assume the game will be split in three conflicts:

1. GER vs. Russia
2. UK vs. Italy
3. USA vs. Japan (not sure yet, if US may be able to ignore Japan and go for North Africa - on a 15 VC game they propably can)

And certainly “game” no. 2 (UK vs. Italy) is the one that could be decided first in one way, i.e the fall of Italy.

[squirecam]

Japan must worry about the USA in the Pacific. Plus, they must subdue China to some extent, or have 3 free chinese infantry to deal with.

The pacific changes are going to make India worth protecting, but also the Med is important.

How people balance these objectives will be interesting to see.

[Lynxes]

Actually, it might be Japan that decides if UK can build that IC in India. If you look at the '41 setup you see that Japan can grab Burma and set-up 2-3 transports within range of India, and it will be sure to fall on turn 2, before any builds can be placed. (The only way to defend it is to start marching Russian inf into Persia on turn 1, but then you need to be able to take this from the front vs. the Germans…) Of course, this move will mean China will be much stronger and harder to destroy in the long-run. So, Japan will have to choose if India or China is the first land target and already on turn 1 apply this strategy.

The other IC placement we will see I think is South Africa. It’s far off enough that it can’t be taken quickly, and those two units per turn could be crucial in the battle against the Italians (as well as the Japanese). Australia is really risky and I think only is a worthwhile buy after the US have already put the Japs on the defensive.

[italiansarecoming]

i think it is i never did b4 though but if u think of it…
japan then will lose lets argue like 9 ipcs for them plus about 8-18 ipcs they could have gotten depending how much they like asia

[italiansarecoming]

sorry made a mistake  i meant if india loses russia and japan fight and western allies v germany while italy most likely will only go for afirka quit fast since(well i would send men to balkanz) go for afirka aginst higher gb which will b weaker and so will ussr india can b lost but in the proper way aka let them have it and defend afrika italy wont be abl to grab it if u wont allow them ( tip when in afrika and asia dont make both ipcs once stick 2 1 of them also australia ipc horrible idea)

[shermantank]

An IC in India would be plausible after the UK takes out Italy. By then, the Axis better pray for a miracle, for that is what it would take for them to win.

[Imperious Leader]

From the Japanese point of view in 1941 a UK factory would be most welcome especially considering that the uk India fleet will be gone before it can bring any infantry to protect it and second that Japan landing 4 infantry on islands and having its fleet in range of invasion as well as 4-5 fighters, would make perfect timing for Japan to have its free factory on J2.

[Lynxes]

I’m not sure here, it all depends on how much help the Russians can afford to give India. If they can march enough infantry down to India, it will hold. And that in turn depends upon the Barbarossa campaign, how hard pressed the Russians will be by the Germans. So, here we clearly need the game to play these scenarios out…

[Funcioneta]

We are talking without knowing the real deploy. I’m totally sure China’s deploy cannot be the one in the picture. It would be the very first country in a A&A game that could get all her units totally and utterly destroyed before even playing her very first turn. Even minors in AAPacific got better deploy.

[Imperious Leader]

I’m not sure here, it all depends on how much help the Russians can afford to give India. If they can march enough infantry down to India, it will hold. And that in turn depends upon the Barbarossa campaign, how hard pressed the Russians will be by the Germans. So, here we clearly need the game to play these scenarios out…

The Russian start with no planes and like 1 tank and they have 6 infantry in range, but i think they need to cover Caucasus as well.  I don’t think the Russians would build anything but tanks on R1 because they got 39 infantry and one tank and like 2 artillery…so that does not make for buying planes, but more tanks and artillery…and if they bought a plane i don’t think their first option was to help out uk with their only offensive tool because they need to keep Germans out from getting a crack at Moscow.

If japan take india, perhaps Soviets can retake but the Japanese will retake it back if they keep some transports built on j1

[Lynxes]

/IL

This is the sequence I think will happen in many games:

R1: Soviet move of 4? inf into Persia.
J1: takes Burma, sinks India fleet and sets up for seaborne invasion of India.
UK1: builds IC in India.
R2: Soviet move those 4? inf to India.
J2: Japan attacks?
UK2: if still controlled, UK build in India IC.

So you see that calculating how many Russian inf will be needed is crucial for Allied success. Given that all Russian offensive units will probably be needed vs. the Germans, I don’t think retaking India after it being lost is a great idea. Just stop it from being lost in the first place, otherwise, don’t build an IC (or build it in South Africa…).

[Imperious Leader]

If they move 4 infantry away from Caucasus how do they cover the hole from Germany taking at least 3 territories on G1  ( Baltic, East Poland, Ukraine- killing 7 infantry) and still protect the factory at Caucasus?  They got about 11 other infantry to cover Karellia, Belorussia, E. Ukraine and Caucasus, plus builds, but that would weaken Karellia and Caucasus and they cant afford to lose either. Karellia will fall on G2 w/o a fight to help UK interests.  I don’t think Soviets can send more than 1-2 infantry to help and that’s not enough if Japan bring in 4 infantry and 4 planes+Shore shots.

If japan can bring in 3 transports in range of India from landings nearby, the 4 infantry would not help.

Japan can invade East Indies, Borneo, and bring the third transport to #36 on J1 (1 tank, 1 art, 4 men) plus BB SB and CA SB

[italiansarecoming]

i think that india ipc is just another reason for japan to defend russia but i agree gb cant hold against japan if that happens

[Lynxes]

/IL

Move of 4 inf:

Caucasus can be defended by 10 Inf on turn 2 (2 of those present, 1 from East Ukraine, 3 from Russia and 4 built).

India defended by: 7 inf, 1 art, 1 AA= 16

India attacked by: 4 inf, 1 art, 1 tank, 5 ftr (one assumed lost to AA), BB+CA shbr= 21+ 7 shbr first round.

Probable result: taken by 1 inf, 1 art, 1 tank.

Move of 6 inf:

Caucasus can be defended by 8 inf on turn 2 (1 from East Ukraine, 3 from Russia and 4 built).

India defended by: 9 inf, 1 art, 1 AA= 20

India attacked by: 4 inf, 1 art, 1 tank, 5 ftr (one assumed lost to AA), BB+CA shbr= 21+ 7 shbr first round.

Probable result: Not taken.

What do we say about these options? Obviously, you wouldn’t be able to defend Karelia SSR but I think this is hard anyways. If you move the maximum amount of infantry (6), you would be able to hold India and get it to start building tanks but you would probably demand quite strong attacks by UK vs. Germany very quickly as the Soviet player. 8 inf in Caucasus isn’t very comforting though considering combined German/Italian attacks, maybe 10 inf is a minimum? On the other hand, IL, your strategy is even more anti-Indian than my suggestion on my thread, since for example you can’t take Phillippines with the BB and CA and invade India on turn 2, so I doubt if many Japanese players will focus so totally on India. Interesting to see this played out!

[Imperious Leader]

Yes its POSSIBLE to send that stuff to India, but what will the Soviets do to keep Germany from taking all the territories other than Moscow real quick? Your idea does not help Karellia which is losing support and giving Germany a factory. I think it was added in AA50 to give the Russians something valuable to defend so its historically realistic because revised often abandons what would be Leningrad and give it to Germany because the Soviets have nothing of value to defend, but to present a factory to Germany gives them the infantry build point so it will take less time to crush Moscow.

I think like the other 2 global games, its even less possible for the Soviets to send all kinds of stuff to help her allies.

Once Karellia falls the focus moves to Archangel to Moscow and the Germans have made a northern hook and invalidated the southern defenses which are now pulled out to defend Moscow.

So again i think the 39 infantry set up are just enough to hold out so they can build tanks and fight back.

[italiansarecoming]

i believe that i saw that russia can not go on land were allie are so ( you cant help asia)
i say"Communists Defend Your Land Don’t Send Aid to the others"

[Funcioneta]

No more aid for Japan, please. A nerfed China, a India who can not be aid by soviets, Dutch East Indies being limey territories (thus you cannot put USA’s ICs at them) and merry bonus who can evolute Japan to Godzilla-Japan. I predict Kill America First with all this stuff.

Japan I choose you!

[italiansarecoming]

chu ching!

[03321]

@Funcioneta:

No more aid for Japan, please. A nerfed China, a India who can not be aid by soviets, Dutch East Indies being limey territories (thus you cannot put USA’s ICs at them) and merry bonus who can evolute Japan to Godzilla-Japan. I predict Kill America First with all this stuff.

No 3-IPC Kwangtung territory for an IC, no 3-IPC FIC territory for an IC, a longer distance to Moscow, a buffed China (yes buffed), a China full of 1 IPC territories (no possible Sink complex for Japan), an India that is harder to assault with Burma in the way of FIC.  And by the way, I am pretty sure Russia can move whatever it wants to help defend India.  Where is it you are seeing differently?  The only rule I know of keeping Russians and UK/US troops out of the same territory is the Russian bonus that is void if UK/US troops are in a Russian controlled territory.