I WISH! Most likely not.
Unit cost and overview
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Hi, I been trolling to try find out what will be the new units and cost. What i got from the posts so far is:
Submarine: Cannot be shot by planes if there is no opposing destroyer present
Cost: 6 (new)
A=2
D=1Transport: Are automatically destroyed if no warship present to defend them. Cannot be used to soak damage, they don’t take part in battle.
Cost: 7
A=0
D=0Cruiser: Shore bombard ( you now need 1 land unit performing amphibious assault for each allowed shore bombardment dice )
Cost: 12
A=3
D=3Destroyer: detect subs
Cost: 8
A=2
d=2CV:
Cost: 14
A=1
D=2BB: Shore bombard ( you now need 1 land unit performing amphibious assault for each allowed shore bombardment dice ) 2hits
Cost: 20
A=4
D=4Bombers
Cost: 12
A=4
D=1No change so far in other units ( compared from revised).
Order of play:
- Germany, Russia, Japan, UK, Italy, US in '41.
- Japan, Russia, Germany, UK, Italy, US in '42.
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@Corbeau:
Submarine: Can only be shot if there is a destroyer present in opposing fleet
Subs can only be hit by planes if there is a friendly destroyer in the battle. Ships can hit subs anytime.
@Corbeau:
Transport: Are automatically destroyed if no warship present to defend them. Cannot be used to soak damage, they don’t take part in battle.
Cost: ??? (I really wanna know this one)7 IPCs
@Corbeau:
CV:
Cost: ?14 IPCs
@Corbeau:
I hear bomber are 13 ipc and BB 22? What about fighters?
Bombers are 12, battleships are 20, and fighters are 10.
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@Corbeau:
Cruiser: Shore bombard
Cost: 12
A=3
D=3Destroyer: detect subs
Cost: 8
A=2
d=2@ Krieghund: Do cruisers also have the anti-sub abilities (ASW) of destroyers? I find that if a 3/3 unit already costs 12 and a 2/2 unit only 8, then the cruiser should have shore bombardement as an extra. Actually shore bombardement is now limited to the numer of participating infs which siginificantly decreases the value of this ability. Even if cruisers should have ASW, they are still too expencive compared to the destroyer and should be priced at 10 or 11. Btw, the 3/4 unit that also can be used on both land and sea (I mean the fighter) is 10 so why should a 3/3 naval unit cost 12?
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Cruisers do have shore bombardment, but no ASW capabilities. As to why they cost more than fighters, naval units always seem to cost more than anything else. Go figure.
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Way back in 1990 we basically used the same price system
Transports and subs were 7
BB were 20
Carriers were 15 I think
Bombers were 12 and fighters were 10I’m getting a lawyer.
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Bombers at 12 IPC OMFG!
carriers at 14? LOL.
wow navy is gonna have some big battles.
Cruisers should also be able to ASW ( cancel the first strike of the sub). IM making that another house rule.
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7 ipc for a transport that cannot even defend or be counted as a casualty is a bit severe. I was expecting 5 or 6 ipc like the sub
I update my first post witht eh new info, thanks.
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yes keep the updates as information is confirmed.
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updated with nation play order as given to me from 03321
Not really unit overview info but still cool to know.
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What I find most interesting is the decline in costs of the ship and air units since the original game. Carriers and fighters dropped in cost in the Revised version, and now all ship and aircraft unit costs have dropped. I wonder if this was done in order to get back to more of a focus on land-sea-air combat rather than focusing mainly on land units as the others are too expensive to purchase. Applying these costs to A&A Pacific and Europe might be very interesting.
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I think naval and air prices are dropped for that reason, but it will not help. What the navy part of the game realy needs is
the ability for germany to build subs (anything realy) without UK being able to destroy them at sight. As long as UK can destroy anything that moves without any cassulties, it will be stupidity for germany to even try to build a few ships. -
Well, i think it’s worthwhile now to build subs for germany since Uk now absolutely need to involve a destroyer when hunting subs to kill with planes. You can’t just kill them with only planes anymore.
So basically, a sub always get to counter attack at least the destroyer or ennemy boats. The sub is 6 ipc and destroyer is 8 ipc. The cost figure rise to 12 and + for cruisers if they tag along.
I’m pretty sure it will be possible to harass ennemy convoys since transports don’t count as casualties anymore and don’t have a defense value either. So a convoy with 4 transport and 2 destroyers will be really in danger with say 2-3 submarines in the vicinity. Will be a though choice to leave really vulnerable transports alone to hunt the subs down.
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@Greand:
I think naval and air prices are dropped for that reason, but it will not help. What the navy part of the game realy needs is
the ability for germany to build subs (anything realy) without UK being able to destroy them at sight. As long as UK can destroy anything that moves without any cassulties, it will be stupidity for germany to even try to build a few ships.Well, it is not that easy to kill a sub, since a destroyer now attacks at 2. However, that is what happened with respect to German surface ships in WW2.
Just be glad that the UK does not have the 2 or 3 carriers that it should have, along with an additional battleship or two, and the US does not have the additional 2 battleships and 2 carriers, fully loaded with planes that it should have, both of these numbers based on the 3 Japanese carriers in the Pacific and the 1 Italian battleship in the Mediterranean. I suspect that if those were in the game, the Axis does not do very well. Naval forces in the A&A games are definitely biased in favor of the Axis.
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This is exactly my point. The Uk might have had a even bigger fleet than what is represented in the game, but regardless the German had submarines and they were painfull for UK.
In game terms, a supperior navy wins everything without a fight and insuperior fleets is completly useless. Which is both boring and not realistic.
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I don’t like CV cost. 16 and 1/3 was perfect, why change it? Also, I’m not sure with bbs cost, but I can live with both. Even a 7 ipcs trannie is affordable (remember that a IC still costs 15)
The thing I cannot stand is bomber costing 12. Why? Before, strat bombs and costing of bomber was balanced. Now, it’s a cheap strategy strat bomb, even without HB. Many fear for Germany, but I wonder If it could hit soviets more than Germany. And for any attacking navy, a bomber is a no brainer :-P
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@Corbeau:
Submarine: Can only be shot if there is a destroyer present in opposing fleet
Subs can only be hit by planes if there is a friendly destroyer in the battle. Ships can hit subs anytime.
Really!? I didn’t realize that. So not even a DD can hit a sub??
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Anybody know what cargo a tranny takes ?
Same as Revised, like one infantry + one other land unit ?
Or as in Guad, a tranny take two land units in any combination ?
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@Corbeau:
Submarine: Can only be shot if there is a destroyer present in opposing fleet
Subs can only be hit by planes if there is a friendly destroyer in the battle. Ships can hit subs anytime.
Really!? I didn’t realize that. So not even a DD can hit a sub??
You should read what you quoted again.
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Anybody know what cargo a tranny takes ?
Same as Revised, like one infantry + one other land unit ?
Or as in Guad, a tranny take two land units in any combination ?
Same as Revised.
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@Corbeau:
Submarine: Can only be shot if there is a destroyer present in opposing fleet
Subs can only be hit by planes if there is a friendly destroyer in the battle. Ships can hit subs anytime.
Really!? I didn’t realize that. So not even a DD can hit a sub??
You should read what you quoted again.
WOW!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I can’t tell you how many times I read that line and what my eyes kept seeing was “ships can’t hit subs anymore”
HAHAHA… oops.
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