Two minor changes we enjoy

[GGleize]

Hello,

The only two rules changes we are still using after several battles because useful and no disadvantages noticed yet are:

1. The BB needs 2 hits to be destroyed but IN A ROW - So if the defender decides to take a damage on a BB > The very next hit (if any) during the battle must be one this same BB. This to avoid the 2 or 3 BB “damage shield” of 2 or 3 hits at the start of the battle. Notice that this do no weaken the big advantage of each BB to bring +1 hit point to the battle.  And for example 2xBB + 2xDD will still bring 6 targets to be destroyed by the enemy instead of 4.

2. The AAA can shoot on ALL PLANES over their territory (not only 3). This to make them more attractive and have some player buy them once a century lol. Yes we know: The normal 3 planes shoot limitation was supposed to encourage the players to buy more of them to shoot at more than 3 planes but we discovered that this official rule resulted in a pervert opposite result: The players didn’t want to buy a weapon not only limited in 3 shoots max but with dice result of 1 only and no strategic bomber target possible either!

We don’t pretend to keep those rules definitively but for the moment we love them and they are useful.

This plus the “USA FIRST WITH NO MOVE” option rule we keep on testing to balance the game.

[baron Münchhausen]

Nice AAA paradox.
So, besides 1 AAA no need to stack more in a given TT.
Did players spread them?
Stronger or cheaper, this is two ways to improve them.

[General 6 Stars]

@GGleize:

Hello,

The only two rules changes we are still using after several battles because useful and no disadvantages noticed yet are:

1. The BB needs 2 hits to be destroyed but IN A ROW - So if the defender decides to take a damage on a BB > The very next hit (if any) during the battle must be one this same BB. This to avoid the 2 or 3 BB “damage shield” of 2 or 3 hits at the start of the battle. Notice that this do no weaken the big advantage of each BB to bring +1 hit point to the battle.  And for example 2xBB + 2xDD will still bring 6 targets to be destroyed by the enemy instead of 4.

Wonder where this rule came from ? I know I mention giving the 1 hit battleship the second hit right away in a earlier post to you.

2. The AAA can shoot on ALL PLANES over their territory (not only 3). This to make them more attractive and have some player buy them once a century lol. Yes we know: The normal 3 planes shoot limitation was supposed to encourage the players to buy more of them to shoot at more than 3 planes but we discovered that this official rule resulted in a pervert opposite result: The players didn’t want to buy a weapon not only limited in 3 shoots max but with dice result of 1 only and no strategic bomber target possible either!

We don’t pretend to keep those rules definitively but for the moment we love them and they are useful.

This plus the “USA FIRST WITH NO MOVE” option rule we keep on testing to balance the game.

[GGleize]

@Baron:

Nice AAA paradox.
So, besides 1 AAA no need to stack more in a given TT.
Did players spread them?
Stronger or cheaper, this is two ways to improve them.

For sure there is no use to stack them up!
But the main effect of our rule was not to buy new ones and spread them but to rebuy them immediatly if destroyed in a battle (witch my players never did before)!

[GGleize]

@SS:

@GGleize:

Hello,

The only two rules changes we are still using after several battles because useful and no disadvantages noticed yet are:

1. The BB needs 2 hits to be destroyed but IN A ROW - So if the defender decides to take a damage on a BB > The very next hit (if any) during the battle must be one this same BB. This to avoid the 2 or 3 BB “damage shield” of 2 or 3 hits at the start of the battle. Notice that this do no weaken the big advantage of each BB to bring +1 hit point to the battle.  And for example 2xBB + 2xDD will still bring 6 targets to be destroyed by the enemy instead of 4.

Wonder where this rule came from ? I know I mention giving the 1 hit battleship the second hit right away in a earlier post to you.

2. The AAA can shoot on ALL PLANES over their territory (not only 3). This to make them more attractive and have some player buy them once a century lol. Yes we know: The normal 3 planes shoot limitation was supposed to encourage the players to buy more of them to shoot at more than 3 planes but we discovered that this official rule resulted in a pervert opposite result: The players didn’t want to buy a weapon not only limited in 3 shoots max but with dice result of 1 only and no strategic bomber target possible either!

We don’t pretend to keep those rules definitively but for the moment we love them and they are useful.

This plus the “USA FIRST WITH NO MOVE” option rule we keep on testing to balance the game.

WOW! Really? I didn’t get it seriously! Respect to you so. This is a house rule from us. It came from several battles were a player could joint 3 BBs (for example 2 already owned +1 bought > This being 60IPCs value) inside a big fleet and take a big advantage on an opposite big fleet with 2xACs with 4 Fighters as main ships instead (68IPCs) because of the huge advantage of the 3 FREE HITS (3 damages) taken by the 3 BBs at the start of the battle! This being opposite to history too.

[baron Münchhausen]

I still don’t see the issue.
Battleships cannot land and help on land compared to 4 Fgs.
3 will lost against 2 Carriers and 4 Fighters (15% vs 85%).
These units are highly specialized and each purchase means 2 less versatile Fgs for both naval or land missions.
In G40, you have to wait into a Naval Base to repair them. Otherwise, you need to fall back and wait an additional turn to be repaired and be again a menace.

You might feel it is broken, but this two hits is the special capacity of BBs.

Use Subs, you will cut them into pieces.

Historically, many US BBs were repaired after Pearl Harbor raid and won the fight in Leyte Gulf, capping the “T” to IJN Task Force.
Musashi and Yamato were pretty hard to sink, even with no real air support.
If they have been used in a more combined fleet ways, they would have been very effective.

[GGleize]

@Baron:

…
3 will lost against 2 Carriers and 4 Fighters (15% vs 85%)
…
Use Subs, you will cut them into pieces.
…

1. I respect your experience but our (certainly shorter) is that now our naval battles are more “natural” with this rule!
2. Can you please tell me were you find those 15% vs 85%? I find a much shorter difference between those two plus another question:
3. If 3xBB vs 2xAC + 4F >  If the 3xBBs roll 2 hits in average return shoot: What do you sacrifice? 2F? 1F+1AC? 2AC?
4. How subs? Remember the subs hit only 33%! Even 6 subs attacking 3xBB will only average sink 1 before all dying if I’m not wrong!?

… ???

To be hit twice for each BB is normal but my problem is when they are together: Those 2 or 3 hits “screens” are too much don’t you think so?

[baron Münchhausen]

Below  you get the link to AACalc:

10 Subs vs 3 BBs
98% vs 2 %
No match at all.
http://calc.axisandallies.org/?mustland=0&abortratio=0&saveunits=0&strafeunits=0&aInf=&aArt=&aArm=&aFig=&aBom=&aTra=&aSub=10&aDes=&aCru=&aCar=&aBat=&adBat=&dInf=&dArt=&dArm=&dFig=&dBom=&dTra=&dSub=&dDes=&dCru=&dCar=&dBat=3&ddBat=&ool_att=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Sub-SSub-Des-Fig-JFig-Cru-Bom-HBom-Car-dBat-Tra&ool_def=Bat-Inf-Art-AArt-Arm-Bom-HBom-Sub-SSub-Des-Car-Cru-Fig-JFig-dBat-Tra&battle=Run&rounds=&reps=10000&luck=pure&ruleset=AA1942&territory=&round=1&pbem=

3 BBs @4 vs 10 Subs @1
42% vs 58% odds of survival.

Three BBs as core fleet might be the way to work in synergies to get the best out of the 2 hits unit.
Eventhough 6 Fgs vs 3 BBs is not that high at 62% vs 38%.
IMO, it is an highly specialized purchased which provide a nice hit absorbing capacity for strafing at the expense of versatility in other fields like Fgs.

IMO, an appropriate counter with StBs and Subs would get ride of such behemoths.
4 StBs 2 Subs vs 3 BBs =  80% vs 15% and 5% even
Yet, it is your houserule, and it is an appropriate way to deal with it when all players assumed it is OP.
But I’m not convinced it is the case.

[GGleize]

TY for all Baron!

So we’ll try to play the normal BB rule again when possible!

But we are bad boys and not only we keep on playing our AAA unlimited shooting home rule but we forbid the ICs to defend itself. They need a AAA to shoot at the bombers in case of strategic Bombing (while still can’t shoot at the escort fighters in this case)! In the case of Karelia’s IC starting with no AAA: There is a fighter here that can Intercept plus Russia can buy a AAA later! This rule is also for the players who like to build no-historical ICs in South Africa or China to think more about their protection against Strategic Bombing > So buying AAA too! Then AAA is not a “garbage unit” anymore!

[Der Kuenstler]

@GGleize:

Hello,

The only two rules changes we are still using after several battles because useful and no disadvantages noticed yet are:

1. The BB needs 2 hits to be destroyed but IN A ROW - So if the defender decides to take a damage on a BB > The very next hit (if any) during the battle must be one this same BB. This to avoid the 2 or 3 BB “damage shield” of 2 or 3 hits at the start of the battle. Notice that this do no weaken the big advantage of each BB to bring +1 hit point to the battle.  And for example 2xBB + 2xDD will still bring 6 targets to be destroyed by the enemy instead of 4.

We play where every other hit HAS to kill or sink something. So say you get three hits on your navy. The first hit you can take free on your BB, but the second hit you have to sink the BB or a different smaller vessel, or lose a plane. Then the third hit you can take free on a different battleship, etc. Works good for us!