Thank you for clarifying.
Grasshopper's 8d System - Conversion tables for 1940 Global units
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General 6 Stars '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizerlast edited by Aug 29, 2017, 7:56 PM
Why do you need to keep all the pieces even. Piece cost more than it’s stronger. Don’t see why you need all this mumble jumble. You want pieces even then buy more tanks or etc.
D8
Art A3 D2. Boost inf +1
Tank A3 D4. +1 on A with a tac
I’m with Ichabod. I think tanks are too strong in any die system.
This gives you option to buy more art.
So it helps Russia defend a little better with tanks but Germany just brings more art and tacos and has to buy a few more tanks on Normandy front. -
@SS:
Why do you need to keep all the pieces even. Piece cost more than it’s stronger. Don’t see why you need all this mumble jumble. You want pieces even then buy more tanks or etc.
D8
Art A3 D2. Boost inf +1
Tank A3 D4. +1 on A with a tac
I’m with Ichabod. I think tanks are too strong in any die system.
This gives you option to buy more art.
So it helps Russia defend a little better with tanks but Germany just brings more art and tacos and has to buy a few more tanks on Normandy front.I’m sorry what? Tacos?
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It is not about even power between pieces but about keeping similar ratios between the same D6s unit and D8s unit. And if changing the ratio, knowing what and why.
For my part, I really like YG basic revised ground units because it keeps same absolute number on dice for AAA, Inf, MIs.
And make MI, Arty and Tank as cost effective on defense.
Infantry remains the best defensive cost wise.Artys becomes the best cost effective weapon on offense, by itself and more when combining with Inf and MI.
This does not boost Tank (no odds change: 50%).
It is just that Inf and MIs are nerfed off/def.
But not when combined arms with Artillery.Inf A1-2 D2
MI A1-2 D2
Arty A3 D2
Tank A4 D4
AAA A0 D1*Purchasing Tank compared to MI will not be a sacrifice in defense, just costlier for the same odds cost wise.
And compared to Arty, it will be a sacrifice in offensive firepower for mobility and keep similar defense cost ratio.It will allow more room for Soviet to purchase Tank to increase mobility compared to static defense with Infantry and Artys (no big sacrifice on defense, just on offense power).
Tacos? Tactical Bomber?
YG’s complete D8s roster:
Inf A1-2 D2
MI A1-2 D2
Arty A3 D2
Tank A4 D4
AAA A0 D1*
Fighter A4 D5
TcBomber A4-5 D4
StBomber A5 D1
Submarine A3 D2
Destroyer A3 D3
Cruiser A5 D5
Carrier A0 D2
Battleship A6 D6 -
Here’s where I need the communities help and advice…
I want to translate the language of 6 Sided G40 oob unit values into 8 Sided unit values.
The only percentage that can translate perfectly is 50% (3/6 or 4/8).
I need to know where each unit from a 6 Sided oob system would fall on an 8 Sided system without passing a full point going left or right (- or +).
For example: cruisers moved (+) by a great margin being the only unit to move off the natural 50% translation, no unit should have a larger margin.
I want purists you use the 8 Sided System, therefore we have to translate the language, not reinvent it.
Thank you all
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General 6 Stars '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 Customizerlast edited by Aug 29, 2017, 9:27 PM Aug 29, 2017, 9:23 PM
@Benito:
@SS:
Why do you need to keep all the pieces even. Piece cost more than it’s stronger. Don’t see why you need all this mumble jumble. You want pieces even then buy more tanks or etc.
D8
Art A3 D2. Boost inf +1
Tank A3 D4. +1 on A with a tac
I’m with Ichabod. I think tanks are too strong in any die system.
This gives you option to buy more art.
So it helps Russia defend a little better with tanks but Germany just brings more art and tacos and has to buy a few more tanks on Normandy front.I’m sorry what? Tacos?
No Lobster dipped in KISS.
@Young:
Here’s where I need the communities help and advice…
I want to translate the language of 6 Sided G40 oob unit values into 8 Sided unit values.
The only percentage that can translate perfectly is 50% (3/6 or 4/8).
I need to know where each unit from a 6 Sided oob system would fall on an 8 Sided system without passing a full point going left or right (- or +).
For example: cruisers moved (+) by a great margin being the only unit to move off the natural 50% translation, no unit should have a larger margin.
I want purists you use the 8 Sided System, therefore we have to translate the language, not reinvent it.
Thank you all
Sorry YG if I was off topic but I wasn’t. My last post only meant to make the art and tank where neither one was to strong. It was a suggestion for d8. I do know where your coming from.
I’ll just stick to my beannie inf.
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Minor quibble: what about reducing Artillery’s offense to 2/8, and letting it boost up to 2 separate infantry? So an artillery unit would still contribute the same 4 offensive pips, but only if it is accompanied by infantry at a 2:1 or better ratio. A little bit of artillery can go a long way in making a large stack of infantry more effective.
Because an artillery unit boosting 2 infantry is not a G40 rule, I’m only interested in knowing the optimal att and def values of G40 units translated into an 8 sided system without deviating too much from their oob value.
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@SS:
Why do you need to keep all the pieces even. Piece cost more than it’s stronger. Don’t see why you need all this mumble jumble. You want pieces even then buy more tanks or etc.
D8
Art A3 D2. Boost inf +1
Tank A3 D4. +1 on A with a tac
I’m with Ichabod. I think tanks are too strong in any die system.
This gives you option to buy more art.
So it helps Russia defend a little better with tanks but Germany just brings more art and tacos and has to buy a few more tanks on Normandy front.I’m all for more artillery purchases, and to lower it’s attack value from 3/8 to 2/8 would make an artillery unit that never gets purchased in oob as is, weaker in comparison using 8 die on all fronts.
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@Young:
Here’s where I need the communities help and advice…
I want to translate the language of 6 Sided G40 oob unit values into 8 Sided unit values.
The only percentage that can translate perfectly is 50% (3/6 or 4/8).
I need to know where each unit from a 6 Sided oob system would fall on an 8 Sided system without passing a full point going left or right (- or +).
For example: cruisers moved (+) by a great margin being the only unit to move off the natural 50% translation, no unit should have a larger margin.
I want purists you use the 8 Sided System, therefore we have to translate the language, not reinvent it.
Thank you all
@Baron:
YG’s complete D8s roster:
Inf A1-2 D2
MI A1-2 D2
Arty A3 D2
Tank A4 D4
AAA A0 D1*
Fighter A4 D5
TcBomber A4-5 D4
StBomber A5 D1
Submarine A3 D2
Destroyer A3 D3
Cruiser A5 D5
Carrier A0 D2
Battleship A6 D6IMO, you nailed it actually YG.
By keeping low values with the same absolute number and combined arms bonus is still +1 (no need to adapt mentally),
you nerfed lightly Fg defense and TcB offense.
Keeping all 50% into 4 (easier to adapt to this change, too)
Cruiser is more an optimized purchase compared to both DD and BB, as it has never been.
Battleship is as strong and competitive with Cruiser, and keeps the 2 hits bonus.
Remains in same twice relative value with Subs and DDs A3.IMO, the last issue is here:
Subs keeps the same attack factor than her nemesis Destroyer.
Defense @2 is still weaker than DD defense @3.
Maybe you need to be clear about your intent on Sub.
They will be (8%) better on defense than OOB.
But DD is 5% better on defense…From my POV, it will make much interesting battle when Sub will be pinned.
They gonna have a better retaliation.
A tinny bit of thrill for attacking Destroyer, even if she had plenty of Air support. -
It is my intention to have subs defend a tad better than they did in oob, I feel putting them at 1/8 on defense pretty much makes them obsolete… but I’m open to hearing both arguments for subs defending at 2/8 or subs defending at 1/8 (I like Destroyers as they are).
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I’m totally OK with Submarine.
Do you think that SBR and dogfight may be interesting that way?
Fighter Attack 2 (25%) Defense (intercept) 3 (37.5)
TcB Attack 2 (25%)
StB Attack 1 (12.5%)Or are you going more conservative?
Fighter Attack 2 (25%) Defense (intercept) 2 (25%)
TcB Attack 1 (12.5%)
StB Attack 1 (12.5%) -
Strategic Bombing Raid Air Battle
Fighter interceptor 2/8 (+16.7%)
Fighter escort 2/8 (+16.7%)
Tac Bomber 1/8 (-16.7%)
Strategic Bomber 1/8 (-16.7) -
@Baron:
I’m totally OK with Submarine.
Do you think that SBR and dogfight may be interesting that way?
Fighter Attack 2 (25%) Defense (intercept) 3 (37.5)
TcB Attack 2 (25%)
StB Attack 1 (12.5%)Or are you going more conservative?
Fighter Attack 2 (25%) Defense (intercept) 2 (25%)
TcB Attack 1 (12.5%)
StB Attack 1 (12.5%)Strategic Bombing Raid Air Battle
Fighter interceptor 2/8 (+16.7%)
Fighter escort 2/8 (+16.7%)
Tac Bomber 1/8 (-16.7%)
Strategic Bomber 1/8 (-16.7)What do you think?
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It is the best of both worlds.
OOB makes all @1.
D8, makes for Fighter better in dogfight.
Simply below and above D6 @1 (16.7%)
Seems to be able to satisfy purist.Fighter interceptor 2/8 (25%) +8%
Fighter escort 2/8
Tac Bomber 1/8 (12.5%) -4%
Strategic Bomber 1/8 -
So how many problems has the 8 sided system solved so far?… I’ve lost count.
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@Young:
I have found that many of the problems with G40 unit profile values can be solved by using an 8 Sided die.
Attacking unit dice odds
1/8 - White (12.5%)
Infantry (-16.7%)
Mech Infantry (-16.7%)2/8 - Green (25%)
Infantry w/Artillery (-33%)
Mech Infantry w/Artillery (-33%)3/8 - Blue (37.5%)
Artillery (+33%)
Submarine (+33%)
Destroyer (+33%)4/8 - Purple (50%)
Tank (0%)
Fighter (0%)
Tactical Bomber (0%)5/8 - Red (62.5%)
Strategic Bomber (-66.7%)
Cruiser (+50%)
Tactical Bomber w/Fighter or w/Tank (-66.7%)6/8 - Black (75%)
Battleship (+66.7%)Defending unit dice odds
1/8 - White (12.5%)
AA Guns (-16.7%)
Strategic Bomber (-16.7%)2/8 - Green (25%)
Submarine (+16.7%)
Aircraft Carrier (-33%)
Infantry (-33%)
Mech Infantry (-33%)
Artillery (-33%)3/8 - Blue (37.5%)
Destroyer (+33%)
Aircraft Carrier (+33%)4/8 - Purple (50%)
Tank (0%)
Tactical Bomber (0%)5/8 - Red (62.5%)
Fighter (- 66.7%)
Cruiser (+50%)6/8 - Black (75%)
Battleship (+66.7%)*Special thanks to Big Al “Mike Tyson” for contributing in this idea & Baron Munchhausen for his calculations.
@Baron:
YG’s complete D8s roster:
Inf A1-2 D2
MI A1-2 D2
Arty A3 D2
Tank A4 D4
AAA A0 D1*
Fighter A4 D5
TcBomber A4-5 D4
StBomber A5 D1
Submarine A3 D2
Destroyer A3 D3
Cruiser A5 D5
Carrier A0D2D3
Battleship A6 D6@Young:
Strategic Bombing Raid Air Battle
Fighter interceptor 2/8 (+16.7%)
Fighter escort 2/8 (+16.7%)
Tac Bomber 1/8 (-16.7%)
Strategic Bomber 1/8 (-16.7)@Young:
So how many problems has the 8 sided system solved so far?… I’ve lost count.
I’m sold to your D8 system…
:-D :-D :-DI’m curious to see how such would change tactical dynamic in game.
I don’t know if such special red, black and blue dices with special symbols from Fantasy Flight game, might be used to tell outright success or fail. At least, for some units.
I just realized you put Carrier to D2, combining with 2 Fgs D5+D5.
It will weaken a lot Carrier on defense.
D12/24 (50%) compared to OOB D10/18 (56%)
I would tend to rise it to same value as Destroyer : D3.
D13/24 (54%)
A Full Carrier will still be weaker than OOB in defense. -
This is what I found so far as an alternative to the diamond shape that rolls like a football.
Perfect for the hit symbol I want to use.
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@Baron:
I just realized you put Carrier to D2, combining with 2 Fgs D5+D5.
It will weaken a lot Carrier on defense.
I would tend to rise it to same value as Destroyer : D3.
A Full Carrier will still be weaker than OOB in defense.Done.
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@Young:
This is what I found so far as an alternative to the diamond shape that rolls like a football.
Perfect for the hit symbol I want to use.
Is it your intent to modify the pips on dices?
So each color will have blanks and a number of determined “bangs”?
Like 1 to 6 bangs…To save one dice color set: the red 5/8 may use 5 bangs and a double bang (or a bigger one) when rolling Battleship. So, when rolling for Cruiser, TcB or Fg, you don’t need to consider this double bangs.
Such things will increase pace of resolve combat phase.
Simply adding bangs, WOW! -
@Baron:
Is it your intent to modify the pips on dices?
So each color will have blanks and a number of determined “bangs”?Such things will increase pace of resolve combat phase.
Yes, that is my intent…
White - 1 Hit symbol / 7 blank sides
Green - 2 Hit symbols / 6 blank sides
Blue - 3 Hit symbols / 5 blank sides
Purple - 4 Hit symbols / 4 blank sides
Red - 5 Hit symbols / 3 blank sides
Black - 6 Hit symbols / 2 blank sides
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To save one dice color set: the red 5/8 may use 5 bangs and a double bang (or a bigger one, or a white one, or a BB symbol, etc.) when rolling Battleship. So, when rolling for Cruiser, TcB or Fg, you don’t need to consider this double bangs, or special symbol.
So, you need only 5 sets of dice.
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