France and what should be done about it.

@oztea:

you arent deraling the thread, on the contrary, you are enriching it.

However, you are on the soap box for france now, so be prepared to see some flack come your way.

Emperor_Taiki is right, in the most simplest terms “France helped and hurt the Allies” For every free french soldier somewhere, there was a Vichy soldier somewhere else, for every partisan there was a collabirator, there were as many ships of the french navy with the allies as were scuttled in port.

The invasion of poland was a win win for Germany, either it gets half of poland for itself, or it gets half of poland AND forces France and the UK into war with it. A War Germany wanted for revenge after what happened in WWI

Do not think I demeane the French or their sacrifice during WWII, however I do frown upon thier choice to give up so quickly. There is honor in fighting a losing battle, you earn the respect of who is fighting you, much like what the US did to Japan, as the war dragged down, we hated the Japanese, but respected their fighting spirt

The Germans had nothing to respect about the french.

The Germans had nothing to respect about the French until the Battle of Bir Hakeim.

Actually, even before Hakeim, Hitler himself said the French are, after the Germans, the best soldiers in Europe.

What he said after Bir Hakeim:

@Adolf:

You have heard, gentlemen, what Koch recounts. It is a new proof of the thesis I’ve always supported; namely, that French are still, after us, the best soldiers in Europe. France will always have the possibility, even with its current birthrate, to raise a hundred divisions. We will definitely, after this war, have to set up a coalition able to militarily control a country capable of such impressive military feats.

Rommel had some good things to say too:

@Erwin:

On the 11th, the French garrison was about to receive its death-blow. Sadly for us, the French did not wait for us. Despite all the security measures we took, they managed to leave the fort, under the command of General Koenig, and preserved most of their men. Thanks to obscurity, they headed southwest and rejoined the 7th British Brigade. Later on, we would notice that where the French broke through, my encirclement measures had not been correctly set up. Once again, proof that a French commander, determined not to throw its guns away at the first opening, can work miracles, even if the situation seems desperate. In the morning, I visited the fort, site of ferocious battles; we had long waited for its fall. Fortifications around Bir Hakeim included, among others, 1,200 dug combat emplacements for infantry and heavy equipment.

Hitler ordered for the Free French prisoners Rommel got to be executed, an order that he refused. I mean, he even allowed French prisoners and German soldiers to have the same water ration.

Emperor_Taiki is right, in the most simplest terms “France helped and hurt the Allies” For every free french soldier somewhere, there was a Vichy soldier somewhere else, for every partisan there was a collabirator, there were as many ships of the french navy with the allies as were scuttled in port.

Actually, after Operation Torch, and with the subsequent Axis occupation of Vichy France, all Vichy forces in Africa, the Armée d’Afrique, joined the Allies. With the Vichy military also dismantled at that point, there was a lot more Free French than Vichy soldiers.

But the collaborator part is quite true. Fascist Frenchmen served the Wehrmacht, specialized units even serving in the Eastern Front. In the Resistance you could never tell who was a Gestapo rat. The Allies did see the squabbling Resistance as valuable assets, but they still feared they wanted more to do with their own political gains than the ultimate defeat of Germany.

That’s true in some ways. But although yes, the French did get their butt kicked, I can see why. WWI, the Western Front anyway, was fought on French soil. By the end of the war Northern France looked like the surface of the moon, except with more guts, dead people, and corpse-eating rats. It wasn’t a politically unified nation and the military continued to think 1918. They got Alscace-Lorraine back. Yay! Now let’s not fight anymore, we got what we want, we don’t want another Verdun.

I personally find one to frown on a nation giving up so quickly a little odd when the French Army was severely hampered by its own government and leadership.

Quote from: Adolf Hitler
You have heard, gentlemen, what Koch recounts. It is a new proof of the thesis I’ve always supported; namely, that French are still, after us, the best soldiers in Europe. France will always have the possibility, even with its current birthrate, to raise a hundred divisions. We will definitely, after this war, have to set up a coalition able to militarily control a country capable of such impressive military feats.

The tread is fine and not sidetracked, but who and where did anybody with the name "adolf Hitler’ posted?

He cant have that name!

@Imperious:

Quote from: Adolf Hitler
You have heard, gentlemen, what Koch recounts. It is a new proof of the thesis I’ve always supported; namely, that French are still, after us, the best soldiers in Europe. France will always have the possibility, even with its current birthrate, to raise a hundred divisions. We will definitely, after this war, have to set up a coalition able to militarily control a country capable of such impressive military feats.

The tread is fine and not sidetracked, but who and where did anybody with the name "adolf Hitler’ posted?

He cant have that name!

He posted it on June 1942 :P

@Imperious:

Quote from: Adolf Hitler
You have heard, gentlemen, what Koch recounts. It is a new proof of the thesis I’ve always supported; namely, that French are still, after us, the best soldiers in Europe. France will always have the possibility, even with its current birthrate, to raise a hundred divisions. We will definitely, after this war, have to set up a coalition able to militarily control a country capable of such impressive military feats.

The tread is fine and not sidetracked, but who and where did anybody with the name "adolf Hitler’ posted?

He cant have that name!

Erwin Rommell also posted.

I think Hitler deserves a smite at the least

@bennyboyg:

I think Hitler deserves a smite at the least

I am sure Aldertag will be the man to do it. :-D

@Brain:

@bennyboyg:

I think Hitler deserves a smite at the least

I am sure Aldertag will be the man to do it. :-D

I still haven’t figured out how to yet

@bennyboyg:

@Brain:

@bennyboyg:

I think Hitler deserves a smite at the least

I am sure Aldertag will be the man to do it. :-D

I still haven’t figured out how to yet

You can’t give karma until your 100th post

@Brain:

@bennyboyg:

@Brain:

@bennyboyg:

I think Hitler deserves a smite at the least

I am sure Aldertag will be the man to do it. :-D

I still haven’t figured out how to yet

Ohhhhh hahah
You can’t give karma until your 100th post

I know there was a response in there somewhere.

Yes there was. I err…. did that on purpose.

I meant to do that.

@oztea:

Touting being one of the first modern democrocies, the French Government should be “of the people, by the people, for the people”

In WWII the french government threw its people under the bus

Let me reitterate, I dont despise the french, or the french fighting spirt….I regret the fact that when it came time for them to “put up theri dukes” and fight, they only went one round with the germans and threw in the towel

in boxing, you look down upon the man who throws in the towel
However; you feel bad for, yet respect the man who stays in the ring, against the odds and loses fair and square, even if its a TKO

Anyway to get back on subject, I agree with this statement.

I think the French just had a diffrent picture in how the next war would be fought…They stayed stationary and being the winner of WW I ,having a respectful Maginotline-Defence and thicker armored Tanks and better piercing rounds gives you some good hope that the next conflict will be solved well in your favor…BUT, what the Germans exercised in modern warfare at that time (blitzkrieg) was as they said breathtaking and everything above their imagination…I wouldn’t give the French bad credit for that. Everybody was stunned!..It took Stalin a couple of month to realize that he was invaded, by that time the Invaders were allraedy on their way to Kiev…

Yeah, but the Russians didn’t surrender.

@Brain:

Yeah, but the Russians didn’t surrender.

Keep in mind they didn’t really have much of a say in the matter  :lol:

@Brain:

Yeah, but the Russians didn’t surrender.

That is correct, butt do remember there was only 40 million french and 200 million russians, and Sovjet Union territory was like 30 times larger than France, and had a very severe winter, too.

also if you visit http://www.dupyinstitute.org/ and look at the Captive Rate Study, you will see that the French did fight better than Italian and Russian soldiers. During the first phase of Operation Barbarossa, more than 3 million russian soldiers surrendered. So dont come with the “Russians never surrender” - sh*t BS talk.

@Razor:

@Brain:

Yeah, but the Russians didn’t surrender.

That is correct, butt do remember there was only 40 million french and 200 million russians, and Sovjet Union territory was like 30 times larger than France, and had a very severe winter, too.

also if you visit http://www.dupyinstitute.org/ and look at the Captive Rate Study, you will see that the French did fight better than Italian and Russian soldiers. During the first phase of Operation Barbarossa, more than 3 million russian soldiers surrendered. So dont come with the “Russians never surrender” - sh*t BS talk.

I’m talking about the country as a whole, not an isolated battle.