German Industrial Complexes

@Subotai:

I don’t think I have ever build an IC with Germany in AA50.
The biggest advantage of a need for more than one German factory, is the fact that Germany is making lots of money, and Russia is not, and hopefully for axis, a strong Germany and Italy means also a weak UK. This advantage of high income, is very powerful in itself, you don’t necessarily need to place 16/13 German units to win the game.

With axis, I always hope to hold Kalia, but this is mostly b/c of the extra money using NOs, not the IC, although almost all players who can keep Kalia with Germany buys 12 units, and place 2 in Kalia, but this is not the same as a need for Germany to build any more factories than the one it starts with.

Some other aspects; if allies can keep France secured, it’s usually game over for axis.
A navy strat with Germany is generally suboptimal, like it is in revised. If Germany can afford this in a dice game with no bids, it’s b/c axis are slightly favored.
If Germany can get all 3 NOs for several rnds, Japan should be reduced or allies looses the game.
Germany can’t keep an IC in Norway if allies don’t want it.

I tend to agree with this statement, but I think the argument is IF you build an IC for Germany where should it be.  Yes I think the Allies in a secured France usually means victory, don’t buy navy with Germany, etc.  But, if one insits on buying an IC for whatever reason what would you suggest and why?

@dondoolee:

if one insits on buying an IC for whatever reason what would you suggest and why?

What is your objective with Germany?

Turtle up and wait for Japan to win the game (again)?

Then I like France.  You can directly help italy with their fleet, you can drop inf right in France as needed, and the units you drop in Germany never go backwards to cover France… they march forward.

If you want to get inf closer to the Russian front, Hungary or Bulgaria might be a good choice.
This IC is not subject to the UK home fleet (which Poland might be).

I am not so sure about a Poland or Norway IC….

@axis_roll:

@dondoolee:

if one insits on buying an IC for whatever reason what would you suggest and why?

What is your objective with Germany?

Turtle up and wait for Japan to win the game (again)?

Then I like France.  You can directly help italy with their fleet, you can drop inf right in France as needed, and the units you drop in Germany never go backwards to cover France… they march forward.

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If you want to get inf closer to the Russian front, Hungary or Bulgaria might be a good choice.
This IC is not subject to the UK home fleet (which Poland might be).

I am not so sure about a Poland or Norway IC….

Yes, the turtle with Germany.  The French IC can actually accomplish that, at least in theory, better than any other method.  Also the potential to help Italy is once again nice in theory at least.

It’s generally not a good place for an IC in TTs worth less than 3. This might be different for Japan, but the IC in Norway can’t be held by Germany, so this means either France or Poland. Both France and Poland is very important for Germany, so if it’s lost Germany is greatly reduced.
I haven’t tried a German factory yet, there’s so many new and complex matters in AA50, but I think a G IC can be viable. At least it’s too soon to know for sure if a G IC is a good or a bad strategy.

So far the factory hasn’t proven itself to me as the best option, but it has shown itself capable of yeilding interesting results.  It seems like it can be used for odd variations.  I could also see the turtle turning into Japan pumping out a lot of planes and sending them to France while boring very predictable play would ensue.

@dondoolee:

So far the factory hasn’t proven itself to me as the best option, but it has shown itself capable of yeilding interesting results.  It seems like it can be used for odd variations.

Yes, Germany can help keep the italian navy alive in sz13, if the axis want to play a naval game in the med.

@dondoolee:

I could also see the turtle turning into Japan pumping out a lot of planes and sending them to France while boring very predictable play would ensue.

Yes, agreed, especially since Japan usually still has 8-9 left after J1.  They have plenty to spare.  Plus the game turn order really helps Germany in the sense that the Japanese ftrs can protect German thrusts before UK attacks (assuming Russia can not hit that same square first).

@axis_roll:

@dondoolee:

So far the factory hasn’t proven itself to me as the best option, but it has shown itself capable of yeilding interesting results.  It seems like it can be used for odd variations.

Yes, Germany can help keep the italian navy alive in sz13, if the axis want to play a naval game in the med.

@dondoolee:

I could also see the turtle turning into Japan pumping out a lot of planes and sending them to France while boring very predictable play would ensue.

Yes, agreed, especially since Japan usually still has 8-9 left after J1.  They have plenty to spare.  Plus the game turn order really helps Germany in the sense that the Japanese ftrs can protect German thrusts before UK attacks (assuming Russia can not hit that same square first).

I guess it is kind of the point for very boring predictable play when playing a turtle.  But even if Japan is down to 6 or 7 planes, its income is usually so high  and foreign resistance so easily dealt with, it can be building air support for Germany without batting an eye or missing a beat (barring maybe a KJF).

That is one nice thing about a Japan IC in FIC, bombers get to rome in 1 turn for some atlantic fleet sinking or London bombings  :-D

Although I would be careful of how many units that Japan sends to germany from her navy, as it is not at all uncommon for the US to drop a fleet on turn 3+ if the pacific is empty, esp if she has fighters to spare.

Re. ICs….I like them on G2 as part of a specific strategy that takes account of what the Allies have done.  It’s not always the best move to buy a factory.  That’s why I don’t like it G1, though I imagine I’ll try Norway sometime, which must be built G1.

The France/Poland debate is interesting–I need to test it out before weighing in.

I want to say it for a second time. Romania is a good place to build a German IC.

1. It is immune to non-Russia based SBR.
2. It allows to send troops to support those already there faster.
3. With the capture of Karelian IC and this one, Germany can produce 14 cheap land units a turn, which is helpful to devellop a better turtle if the Allies go KGF.

When I play Germany, I use this strategy half of the time and it works well.

i just finished a three game series of 42 where i was axis.  all three games i built an IC in Bulg/Romania.  won 2 out of 3.  IC in romania is nice to get some men to caucusus quicker, and i built a few transports, with italian fleet for def, to make africa a little easier and to give his US bombers something to do.  i agree totally with the romania IC.

I haven’t usually been building a German IC in my games, except occasionally in Egypt
(which I’m still not sure if it’s good or not), but what would you do on G2 if is is obvious that the Allies are going KJF?  - i.e. Russia stacking Buryatia, moving inf to Chinghai and inf and arm to Persia, UK IC in India, all US air units which can reach to Australia, and US spending all IPCs in a Pacific navy.

In this case, it seems that a German turn 2 IC would almost be a must, but where would the best location be?  It seems that France would be best.

@Bardoly:

I haven’t usually been building a German IC in my games, except occasionally in Egypt
(which I’m still not sure if it’s good or not), but what would you do on G2 if is is obvious that the Allies are going KJF?  - i.e. Russia stacking Buryatia, moving inf to Chinghai and inf and arm to Persia, UK IC in India, all US air units which can reach to Australia, and US spending all IPCs in a Pacific navy.

In this case, it seems that a German turn 2 IC would almost be a must, but where would the best location be?  It seems that France would be best.

If it was obvious there was a KJF going on I don’t know if I would consider France as my first choice.  I would think Poland, off the top of my head, because I can 1) still consider buying a navy in a KJF strat 2) most importantly it is closer to Russia, which I am guessing I want dead as quickly as possible.  If you think you can kill Russia quicker via a french IC then I would do it.  If Germany happened to own Egypt that would be something to consider as well, it can help w/ Italy, Japan, and pressure the Caucaus.