German Industrial Complexes

@Cmdr:

No, I have found that Karelia, if it falls, does so only long enough for Germany to get the 7 IPC for it. (2 for the land, 5 for the National Objective) after that either Russia or one of the other two allies liberates it.

My bad, I didn’t see you said with NO’s.  The couple times I played like that it did seem as if Germany had more money than it knew what to do with (and I think that may have been round 2), if that is the case in a normal NO game, than yes it would be very tempting to build a factory.  Egypt (if you are lucky enough to score it) would be the safest and could wreck havok on Russias tail, but still only 2 ipc’s.  As far as Francs goes in a game with NO’s can you build 16 units, that seems like quite a bit.  Factorin in that it is now a nice bombing target and I don’t know if you will, plus your building troops further away from Russia which can’t be good.  It seems like Poland is the best bet (other than maybe EGY) if you really are having supply problems.

However, if you can’t hold Karelia, if you put double (or maybe even triple with the Japs) pressur on the Cauc how quickly can that be secured.  It can’t be enforced so easily by the allies (maybe some Brits from Inda) plus you can bombard with Italy and bomb it with germany.

Now this is an interesting topic.

The idea of building a factory in Norway is very interesting, but at first glance I don’t see how it would work.  You can only build three units a turn, and I would think Russia would set up Finland as a dead zone so you wouldn’t be able to advance easily.  And then the UK should set up to take the territory as soon as possible.  Has this worked for you in a competitive (tournament) game?  If so, could you share a link?  I’d love to see how it played out.

To me France seems ideal.  After that, spend your first 30 bucks on 10 infantry and any remainder on French armor.  That way you can always have a nice stack going East.  Or if you’re in the situation that so often happens where Germany is waiting for help from the Japanese, never underestimate the ability to draft 14 or 15 infantry a turn to help hold out.

I would think, though I haven’t played enough to be sure, that building in any 2 IPC territory just isn’t going to be worth it (unless it’s Egypt, maybe, where you’re never going to get stuff there ever again otherwise).

@mpc220:

I would think, though I haven’t played enough to be sure, that building in any 2 IPC territory just isn’t going to be worth it (unless it’s Egypt, maybe, where you’re never going to get stuff there ever again otherwise).

The one time I placed an IC in EGY, North Africa became a magnet for the Allied invasion force. I spent all my efforts in Africa defending that IC and ultimately lost it. I couldn’t recommend it.

i think that norway would be a good place to build a I.C. if germany has the resources to defend it and advance at the same time,
it could be a traget for the u.k. and the u.k. player may focus their attention toward norway and away from france,
however, if germany can keep their navy there is no reason for a I.C. at norway, with transports loading and offloading from germany to norway,

the i.c. at france could be troublesome, with the extra moves needed to get to the eastern front,

ukraine could be a useful territory for a I.C. with a value of 2, and 1 move from russia, it could be used as a launch pad for attack’s against the u.k. I.C. at egypt, if italy are not doing well, and to re-inforce the eastern front,

poland is a good option, 3 I.P.C. value, 2 moves from russia, victory city

@d142:

the i.c. at france could be troublesome, with the extra moves needed to get to the eastern front,

The time I used the FRA IC, it was mostly for ground units to help defend FRA, NWE, or ITA or for aircraft builds. Ground units headed east were produced in GER.

taking and holding the caucasus would be ideal, although with the possesion of the caucasus usuallly changing between italy, russia and germany from round to round, a  I.C. at the caucasus can be used to build units at the front and sustain the advance without the need to retreat and regroup, while deterring a russia advance toward italy,
it can make space for a move toward karelia, with russia keeping units at the caucasus

If UK focuses on Norway IC, it cannot aim her main target in early game: italian navy. If it lets italians live and grow, can be a good investment, even if finally falls. Egypt is good, can be reinforced by the 3 axis powers (including Japan  :-D ) and can be the death sentence for allies in case of Polar Express :wink:

the I.C. at norway would have 2 advantages,

germany could build 13 unit’s,

norway would be easier to defend,

other that those 2 advantages, i see no reason to build a I.C. at norway,

if germany has lots of I.P.C. and could realistically gather 50 - 55 I.P.C. a round, a I.C. at norway would be a great advantage,

if the u.k. captures norway they get a free I.C. which can then be used to build unit’s to attack the eastern front or re-inforce russia

I like Norway IC, because it don’t let UK attack both Mediterranean sea and northern Europe. They must choose one of two. Even if UK build SAF IC, it can be a real pain. My main issue with this is germans building only 5 inf 1st round and giving too much room to soviets, but maybe it is countered by Scandinavia retained in german hands

The purchase would be IC, 5 inf, save 2 IPCs (you don’t need a 2nd aagun 1st round for defend Germany IC because the bomber is best used against german z6 and z5 separated ships (you need one fig to kill the trannie, and other fig plus bomber to kill the cruiser)). Purchase the aa gun next round  :wink:

And Norway would be defended, G1, by:

• 2 inf from nor
• 2 inf from fin
• 1 inf, 1 aa gun from Germany
• Any fighters you can rally

I’d say at least 7 units. Jen has right, it’s better if you kill the UK bb. And for those thinking axis need a bid: one german art bid to lyb can be devastating with this strat - Egypt killed, z2 fleet killed and Scandinavia for axis  :-o

And it will be better for allies if germans don’t research Improved Industry tech (5 guys a round, talk about super Quisling)  :roll:

I can’t see how the Norway IC is better than the Poland IC.

The Poland IC is automatically defended by infantry from Germany moving toward Russia and, as was said before, is one move closer to Russia.

The Norway IC is isolated and, considering the typical naval buildup by the UK, it must be defended by a significant number of units that are in no way a threat to anyone unless Russia or UK aren’t trading Finland and there are armor in Norway.

For the Axis, you want to be able to pile up your builds, not choose to isolate them. The Egypt IC is an exception because it can be supported by the Italians, which is why I have decided that it is best for the UK to counterattack Egypt if there is one German armor left and even sometimes when there are 2 armor. Lose the UK bomber to make sure you take it, too. Italy can retake Egypt and build an IC if it wants, just as long as Germany can’t. That move carries other benefits but that is for another thread.

@Cmdr:

It’s better in the fact that it helps you hold Finland and Norway which is +5 IPC to you a round and -15 IPC to the Allies a round (5 IPC for the territories +10 IPC to Russia for the NO if they can get Poland/Bulgaria as well…which, they probably will if you lose Finland and Norway!)

Seems like a lot of effort just to hold on to 3 IPC’s and trade 2 IPC’s. And, as Russia, I never count on the big money NO until Germany starts collapsing. Never in the early game.

Plus, with both Russia and the UK able to trade Finland with you, your need to adequately defend Norway from UK landings, and your ability to only build 3 units per turn, it means that the balance for Germany could get upside down pretty quick unless you are flying aircraft over for defense and then you’re probably going to be forced to trade France which defeats the purpose of the income benefits of holding Norway.

Yeah, I’m not sure about a Nor IC.

You can pretty much accomplish the same thing from Kar, and here you didn’t need to buy an IC and you can still pressure and move on Mos when the time is right and trade Fin if you really want to.

You would have to defend Nor from potentially all three Allies.  I would think the US goes to Atlantic if they see an IC in NOR.  It is going to end up in UK or US hands.  I’d expect a heavy UK crusier navy as well.  Free bombardment.
Also in Pol (in mainland Europe IC) at least Ita can help with a toke defense as well.  They should always have a few inf/rt/arm around.

Edit:

Also you’ll have to buy an AA or both UK/US will combine to bom it for 6 every turn.

Just when I thought you were out of great ideas, you come up with another! well done Jen!
A Norway complex sounded far fetched at first but after reading your argument and thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense. I think I still prefer a France IC however I will have to try the Norway idea sometime as it will give me the element of suprise in my games and I think it can work really well!

@Enigmatic_Decay:

Just when I thought you were out of great ideas, you come up with another! well done Jen!
A Norway complex sounded far fetched at first but after reading your argument and thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense. I think I still prefer a France IC however I will have to try the Norway idea sometime as it will give me the element of suprise in my games and I think it can work really well!

:?  Really. Darth and I just made 3 posts illustrating why the Norway IC is a bad idea and they just went straight past you. Well, I guess when you compare me and a cartoon witch in lingerie, everything I say probably sounds like “blah blah blah”.

P.S.- That’s not really her in the picture. The Commander’s hair is brown.  :wink:

@U-505:

:?  Really. Darth and I just made 3 posts illustrating why the Norway IC is a bad idea and they just went straight past you. Well, I guess when you compare me and a cartoon witch in lingerie, everything I say probably sounds like “blah blah blah”.

P.S.- That’s not really her in the picture. The Commander’s hair is brown.  :wink:

Her avatar wins but your arguments are sound.  I would like to try it in a game just to see how it would make the Allies react.

LMAO I like that response 505 it was a funny!
I’m not sure if the idea will 100% work, but I would like to try it as I think it may have potential!