Unit abilities

@marechallannes:

What kind of combinations of land units I’ll able to load on my transports?

Same as in Revised - one infantry plus one other land unit.

I get this from the fact sheet:

• The submarine now costs 6 and has 2/1 combat stats. Submarines can no longer be attacked by aircraft unless there is also an attacking destroyer in that same zone.

I’ve got a few questions to this rule:

I can attack a submarine with other naval units … for example with a carrier or a sub.
If i go with one cruiser, one carrier and two planes into a hostile seazone with two enemy subs and follow this rule… Then I could attack only with my two ships?

How can my carrier detect a sub in the same battle and the fighters can’t?

The correct rule should be:
Submarines can no longer be attacked by aircraft unless there is also a naval vessel or allied naval vessel in that same zone.

This detection rule is not necessary. Destroyers block the deadly-first-shot and prevent the submerge of enemy subs

It’s not really about “detection” of subs, per se.  This rule is simply an abstraction representing the fact that subs are hard to combat without ships designed for that purpose (destroyers).  It allows subs to survive longer by making them invulnerable to air attacks without destroyer support.

If you really wanted to be “accurate” about anti-sub warfare, you’d need to go to a far more tactical level of combat than this game does.  Cruisers would also have some anti-sub capabilities, and battleships and carriers wouldn’t be able to fight subs at all.  Subs would need to be detected before they could be attacked, and different unit types would need different anti-sub ratings and capabilities.

Rather than bog down the game with this type of system, Larry simply abstracted the concept to make the absence of destroyers in combating subs remove the influence of a powerful class of units on them.  As with any abstraction, different people will have different ideas on how to best represent it.

Ok.

In fact Larry likes the german wolfrudels.

And I hate it too if the US bomber in the revised edition crosses the atlantic and bomb my lonley sub in the northern atlantic.

Is it possible to attack an enemy sub with two cruisers, or a battleship?

Or will I always need a destroyer to detect them?

Only air units require a destroyer to hit subs.  Ships can hit them without destroyers.

meh i am thinking if u want to do the block technique hello just use dun dun dun dun……so long

detsroyers ok anyways if i had lets say um 70 ipcs to spend id probably buy (not including transports or aircraft carriers)
1 bship 1 cruiser 2 destroyers and 3 subs this would b my buy if i had enough trans and aircraft carriers whioch i normally do which sometimes is a problem

@Krieghund:

Only air units require a destroyer to hit subs.  Ships can hit them without destroyers.

eg. 1 Cruiser attacks 1 Sub

1. Does the Sub still get 1st strike?
2. Is there any mechanism for the Sub to avoid the combat since there is no enemy DD present (eg. diving before the battle in lieu of it’s 1st strike?)

@cousin_joe:

eg. 1 Cruiser attacks 1 Sub

1. Does the Sub still get 1st strike?

Yes.  Only a DD will cancel a sub’s special abilities.  However, submarine first strikes only occur in the first round of combat.  After that, they fire at the same time as all other units.

@cousin_joe:

2. Is there any mechanism for the Sub to avoid the combat since there is no enemy DD present (eg. diving before the battle in lieu of it’s 1st strike?)

Yes, if there is no enemy DD present, a sub may sumerge instead of firing.  This happens at the beginning of each combat round, before any dice are rolled.  The attacker submerges first, then the defender.

@Krieghund:

@cousin_joe:

2. Is there any mechanism for the Sub to avoid the combat since there is no enemy DD present (eg. diving before the battle in lieu of it’s 1st strike?)

Yes, if there is no enemy DD present, a sub may sumerge instead of firing.  This happens at the beginning of each combat round, before any dice are rolled.  The attacker submerges first, then the defender.

So no ‘free’ shot, but a chance to avoid being killed.

Same goes in the above example about two cruisers and a battleship.

The sub would have the option to dive without being subjected to attacking fire of the cruisers and BB.

@Krieghund:

@cousin_joe:

2. Is there any mechanism for the Sub to avoid the combat since there is no enemy DD present (eg. diving before the battle in lieu of it’s 1st strike?)

Yes, if there is no enemy DD present, a sub may sumerge instead of firing.  This happens at the beginning of each combat round, before any dice are rolled.  The attacker submerges first, then the defender.

So, an attacking sub can move into combat and submerge in the first round of combat without ever firing a shot if no destroyer is present?  If this is the case, destroyers are all the more important because by doing the above described move, a lone sub could prevent the next power from loading units during combat phase in a contested sea zone.

@gsh34:

So, an attacking sub can move into combat and submerge in the first round of combat without ever firing a shot if no destroyer is present?

Yes.

@gsh34:

If this is the case, destroyers are all the more important because by doing the above described move, a lone sub could prevent the next power from loading units during combat phase in a contested sea zone.

No, it can’t.  Enemy subs and transports don’t stop movement, loading, or any other activity.

@Krieghund:

@gsh34:

If this is the case, destroyers are all the more important because by doing the above described move, a lone sub could prevent the next power from loading units during combat phase in a contested sea zone.

No, it can’t.  Enemy subs and transports don’t stop movement, loading, or any other activity.

That’s a huge difference in AA50.  Players must learn to remember that Transports and subs are now of the ‘sub-human’ class (for lack of a better term, no offense to the Gieco cavemen or other sub-humans out there)  :roll:

There’s surface war ships, and then there’s tpts and subs.

After so many games of Revised, I am still filtering everything through that rule set.  It will take some time (and games played) to really comprehend the magnitude of the rule changes and how it will affect the game compared to Revised.

meh ill use detsroyers to astop movement instead of subs and trnasports anyways  8-)

meh ill use detsroyers to astop movement instead of subs and trnasports anyways

I am getting really close to getting angry about these types of posts. STOP with the poor language and get your grammar correct when you post. Most people are not responding because they cant even understand what your saying.

Spend just a few seconds to fix your spelling so as to make your point clear.

@Imperious:

meh ill use detsroyers to astop movement instead of subs and trnasports anyways

I am getting really close to getting angry about these types of posts. STOP with the poor language and get your grammar correct when you post. Most people are not responding because they cant even understand what your saying.

Spend just a few seconds to fix your spelling so as to make your point clear.

*you’re saying :wink:

But in all seriousness, I do agree that an occasional typo is okay, but 3 per post is a bit excessive.

It’s 3 in one sentence and the words inserted like ‘anyways’ at the end adds no meaning. I think he said:

“Maybe I will use destroyers to stop movement rather than subs and transports”

It only take a few seconds to make it clear. Time should be spent to do this so people have a chance to respond rather than try to figure out what is going on and give up.

LOL!  :-D

I’m not sure what it is, but these last few posts have me cracking up!  :-D

@Krieghund:

@cousin_joe:

eg. 1 Cruiser attacks 1 Sub

1. Does the Sub still get 1st strike?

Yes.  Only a DD will cancel a sub’s special abilities.  However, submarine first strikes only occur in the first round of combat.  After that, they fire at the same time as all other units.

@cousin_joe:

2. Is there any mechanism for the Sub to avoid the combat since there is no enemy DD present (eg. diving before the battle in lieu of it’s 1st strike?)

Yes, if there is no enemy DD present, a sub may sumerge instead of firing.  This happens at the beginning of each combat round, before any dice are rolled.  The attacker submerges first, then the defender.

I really like these rule changes Kreighund
SUB viability is dramatically improved from Revised
It’s actually very close to what we had in A&A Enhanced, where SUBs were very viable and a big factor in most games.  There are 2 keys though that are still missing…

1. In AA50, SUB detection with Destroyers is automatic, whereas in Enhanced, destroyers needed to make a SUB detection roll (1@3/DD (higher with modifiers, 1 success detected all SUBs). 
2. SUBs did Convoy damage to “Island” nations (UK, Japan, US)

On the flip side, AA50 SUBs are cheaper than in Enhanced (6 vs 7).  So the question will be whether the cheaper SUBs in AA50 will be enough to overcome the lack of Convoy Raiding and the decreased viability.

A big factor that will determine this is whether Germany will be able to break out of the Baltic, which will be in turn largely be determined by the opening setup.  If UK is able to buildup their Navy just outside the Baltic, and essentially hem the Germans in, then SUBs will not be viable.

I’ve got a question about SBR.

I read the informations on the fact sheet:
_- Strategic boming now functions drastically differently. Every strategic bombing “hit” reduces the unit production capacity of that industrial complex by 1. Once the damage to an industrial complex equals the value of the territory it is in, that industrial complex can no longer produce units. (i.e. if an industrial complex in Germany is bombed for 6 damage, it can only produce 4 units a turn until repaired). Damage to industrial complexes can be repaired for 1 IPC per damage point.

The maximum number of damage points an IC can sustain is twice the IPC value of the territory it’s in.  The number of damage points inflicted on the IC is subtracted from its production capacity.

If an IC in India is bombed for 4 points of damage, the owner must repair 2 of the damage points in order to produce one unit there.  The owner must repair all four points for full production._

If a Bomber from UK bombs Germany on a SBR with a roll of 5.

Does it mean I have to pay 5 IPCs now for bombing - and on my turn I have to repair the IC for 5 IPCs?