Prostitutes and pornstars

@cystic:

Ok - so this isn’t intending to be political.  I don’t really give a sh*t what people think about prostitution.  I just have a simple question (well - two):

1. how is pornography not prostitution - i.e. how are porn stars not prostitutes?  How does a camera change the fact that people are paying for sex?

Prostitutes Do It with You.  Porn Stars Do It with Someone Else.  For porn star companies, that Someone Else is usually regularly screened for various diseases.  Prostitutes are generally not screened.

2. could i get away with solicitation if i had a friend with a camera in the car?  “hi there streetwalking lady.  I was wondering if you would be interested in staring in a movie with me as your co-star . . . ?”

No.  If you are busted by a police officer, cute stories generally don’t work.  You know what you were trying to do; the prostitute knows what you were trying to do, the police will know what you were trying to do.

Don’t get me wrong - my wife is my fantasy woman.  But i am just curious given society’s surging interest in porn, and the increasing profile that prostitution as a newsworthy subject is getting.

Better stay with your wife.  Doesn’t sound like you ought to get involved thinking about pornstars and prostitutes, really.

could go either way I guess. But don’t you dare make porn illegal while I’m stuck in a desert with no girls around.

@Imperious:

and the increasing profile that prostitution as a newsworthy subject

But if you talk about WAR, then yes thats on many minds, War replaced Sex in all aspects of life and probably less people have suffered as a result. Yes its a strong statement, but deaths from disease, broken homes, health costs, hospice costs, broken families, divorce,and  exploitation of children/minors most likely led to far greater suffering that all the wars put together easily.

I must strongly disagree. War is the worst of human tragedies. It brings more diseases, broken homes, etc. than prostitution, and by far. Protitution is a bad thing if the person is forced to do it, but war is, by far, worst than it.

I believe the trick isn’t to have a camera, CC.  I believe all you have to do is ask the Prostitute if you can hire her for an hour to keep you company.  Now you are paying for time and anything that happens between two consenting adults happens.

As for Porn/Prostitution, I’m biased.  I’ll admit that right now and make sure it’s clear and obvious.  Prostitution comes in many forms and in many levels all the way from Porn (based on the Greek Porne (check that spelling)) all the way up to executive escorts.  There’s an implied transaction involving sex at some level, whether voyeurism, vaginal/anal penetration, orgy, or whatever.

That said, I honestly don’t know what gives people the right to attempt to legislate morality on other people at the detriment of women.  Is it not a victim less crime?  I’m talking the college girl paying for school by giving hand jobs for $50 a pop not the girl abducted from her family and forced into prostitution by a pimp.  There’s obvious other issues with the second scenario that do not exist in the former.

What makes her a victim?  Because a guy gives her some money for a service?  How is that different then taking a woman out to a restaurant and a movie?  I mean, other then it being cheaper!  You’re still paying money on her behalf, you are just dictating how that money will be spent.  And I can almost assure you that the boy/man is expecting something in return, what it will be he does not know, but there’s some expectation there.

As for the man’s side, it’s not making him a victim either.  He’s choosing to purchase a service he wants at a reduced price and improved chance of success.

So what, exactly, is the harm in voluntary prostitution?

Prostitution: exchange of money for sexual services where one of the parties involved does it for sexual gratification
Pornography: the filming of actors engaged in sexual activities for the purpose of selling & distributing, therefore protecting it under the 1st amendment.

Porn stars aren’t prostitutes because they don’t have clients paying them directly to engage in sexual intercourse.  Both actors are being paid, so it is assumed sexual gratification is secondary (if there at all) to the payment of services.

IMO, I think prostitution should be legal (and regulated) since it is a consensual crime and that appropriateness should only be considered by the parties involved.

@Imperious:

and the increasing profile that prostitution as a newsworthy subject

Where are getting this information? I never hear about such things in any form. Sex had its last heyday in the 1970’s and died with many others in the early 1980’s… Tragically from aids.

Pornstars don’t have any news about them either. Except when they die from Aids.

But if you talk about WAR, then yes thats on many minds, War replaced Sex in all aspects of life and probably less people have suffered as a result. Yes its a strong statement, but deaths from disease, broken homes, health costs, hospice costs, broken families, divorce,and  exploitation of children/minors most likely led to far greater suffering that all the wars put together easily.

Are you retarded?

@Cmdr:

I believe the trick isn’t to have a camera, CC.  I believe all you have to do is ask the Prostitute if you can hire her for an hour to keep you company.  Now you are paying for time and anything that happens between two consenting adults happens.

Sounds like you know from experience?  :lol:

Well… if I ever have a hinkerin’ to buy some booty, I’ll remind myself to bring a camera and crew.  :-P

@Jermofoot:

Porn stars aren’t prostitutes because they don’t have clients paying them directly to engage in sexual intercourse.  Both actors are being paid, so it is assumed sexual gratification is secondary (if there at all) to the payment of services.

Okay, so to solve the problem, what you need to do is charge the man $500/hr for the escort, but charge the woman $50/hr for the male’s company.  Now both parties are being paid. :)  Anyway, what happened to the right of assembly?

@Cmdr:

I believe the trick isn’t to have a camera, CC.  I believe all you have to do is ask the Prostitute if you can hire her for an hour to keep you company.  Now you are paying for time and anything that happens between two consenting adults happens.

Sounds like you know from experience?  :lol:

You laugh, but yes, actually, I do.  I was a “diamond girl” which was second rung on the pricing chart for an escort agency.  As long as the man left the cash on the table in an envelope, and it was understood that the price was for the time of the escort only and that no agreement for sexual favors had been arranged, the two adults could do anything they wanted to do during that time.

And yes, for the record, I had a few regular clients who wanted nothing else but to spend time with me.  And no, for the record, I did not have vaginal intercourse with any of my clients, but I did provide other services if they wanted them.

And no, I cannot say that those guidelines protect you in every state and province in the nation.  I just know those work in Wisconsin, Indiana and Illinois (where I worked.)  Perhaps the laws are different where you live, so be careful.  And, for the record, do not engage in any sexual chatter while on the phone with the administrative assistant.  You will be informed that none of the girls have any open times and your caller ID will be flagged.  The crews take really good care of the girls. (For instance, I had two male escorts, one to drive me to the appointment, one to escort me to the door.  Both were about the size of a bus and I honestly don’t think either of them would have had a problem making Chuck Norris cry.)

Also, of interesting note, we had classes on male gratification.  Techniques and tools we could use if the situation “just happened to arise.” Some of it was interesting, but after a while, it became boring.  One of the reasons (outside of I graduated and enlisted) I quit.

“Sex leads to greater ruin of man than War”

All facts quoted from various sources…

By sexual disease:

More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981.

Africa has 12 million AIDS orphans.

At the end of 2007, women accounted for 50% of all adults living with HIV worldwide, and for 61% in sub-Saharan Africa.

Young people (under 25 years old) account for half of all new HIV infections worldwide.

In developing and transitional countries, 7.1 million people are in immediate need of life-saving AIDS drugs; of these, only 2.015 million (28%) are receiving the drugs.

I am not adding in the pain and hardship relating to all the other items such as any number of STD’s and etc.

Having children creates poverty. Children are not coming from thin air…

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2005/JenniferLeong.shtml

And no I’m not saying its these peoples fault.

Plus you add rape, sexual torture, slave sex trade, broken homes from divorce due to infidelity, on and on you you get real human pain.

On the other hand- War cases deaths, and poverty and suffering,  but i don’t think the total numbers are even close.

Overpopulation is the real threat and wars have done nothing by comparison. In fact war caused better technology, while overpopulation created better poverty.

To be honest, IL, I understand the ethical and legal ramifications of the sex trade and I don’t think anyone is going to state that forced prostitution is a good thing.  However, what about the rights and privileges of women to chose what goes into their bodies?  I can abort a baby, but I cannot have sex with a man and pocket an extra $500 for it?  Seems a little bit off. Maybe it’s just me.  Not that I want to get into a discussion over the morality of abortion, I know everyone here knows my stance on it, I’m just using it to make my point.

Also, didn’t they just have a study released that the reason men are catching and dieing from AIDS faster then women is because they are circumcised?  Maybe that wasn’t discussed here, but on another chat forum, if that’s the case, i apologize and I’ll attempt to track down the study to post here.

Anyway, the idea isn’t to say you are incorrect, it’s just to give you something to think about.  Maybe you are 100% correct, maybe you are only 40% correct.  I don’t really know.  I just wanted to give you some food for thought, as I said.

I’d appreciate it if you would think about it, however, since I actually worked in the trade for a while, I do feel I have some relevant information on the subject.  And, while I know that there are forced prostitution rings, I believe they generally run by taking girls FROM America and bringing them elsewhere.  I’ve never known someone who was forced into the trade here anyway.

I was responding to Jerm…

Its in general terms anyway, suffering can be measured in many ways.

Prostitution while not legal can also lead to broken marriages when the sex starved types are married w/children and now face losing half their assets, and the child is not to have this father. Though the laws have something to do with this, the act is also in question.

But i suppose people who are not attached or have no families probably are just hurting themselves. I just feel it cheapens the human race when all those things happen.

Then you get all these same types that view war like its something special like a big crime. War is just another form of human conflict resolution that follows failed diplomacy, Nothing unnatural about war and it will never end because its part of humanity, while i don’t feel the same about how issues relating to why people engage in many different behaviors regarding sex, procreation, and how these issues effect us in harmful ways.
    Of course war is totally harmful but the cry against war is powerful, while nobody talks about how more harmful all the other issues are with the same vigor, because THEN your getting into peoples ethics, and the modern problem is political correct behavior trumps moral relativism when nit comes to sex.

Example: 1 million children can starve in Africa this year, while Europe makes noise about US involvement in Iraq where we lost 4,000…?

1.  Why is it illegal to sell something you can give away free completely legally?
2.  If there is one thing we learned in this nation during prohibition it is that, if you make an action that people want to engage in illegal, you INVITE the criminal element to come in an control it.

When is the last time we had a bootlegging shootout over someone invading Jack Daniel’s turf?  When is the last time that we had Coors pushers on street corners outside schools?  When is the last time that Anheuser Busch enslaved women to lure men to speak-easy’s for the purpose of getting their money?

As for the difference between Pornstars and Prostitutes…
There are websites galore that would seem to indicate that the presence of a camera, and the “cash for modeling” or “cash for your release waiver” is indeed a viable alternative to the illegal “cash for sex”.

@Imperious:

“Sex leads to greater ruin of man than War”

As I said previously, I must totally disagree with this. Sex is neccesary for the continuity if human specie, war, not. War is intrinsecally hurting, sex, not.

More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981.

Africa has 12 million AIDS orphans.

Lots of AIDS deaths are for not using condoms in sexual relations. Most times for lack of info or even money for buying condoms. Other simply cannot choose (think a women in a tribe in any poor country). Is not surprising in Africa are more victims of AIDS, becuase Africa is the continent with more wars currently. War leads to poverty (for the masses, allways a few benefict of war  :-P), and the poverty is the real factor in AIDS expansion, not intrinsecally sex. The issue is even worst because poor people cannot buy medicaments against AIDS (in a war, if you can buy meat, you are lucky) and generally that countries don’t have a wellfare system that could give them the medicaments. Remember, sex is not the only way of transmission of AIDS.

At the end of 2007, women accounted for 50% of all adults living with HIV worldwide, and for 61% in sub-Saharan Africa.

Not surprised women are 50 % of adult living with HIV, because, women are 50% of population. Not surprised about percent in Africa with all the discrimination that gets the women there. Poverty and discrimination favor AIDS more than sex.

Young people (under 25 years old) account for half of all new HIV infections worldwide.

In developing and transitional countries, 7.1 million people are in immediate need of life-saving AIDS drugs; of these, only 2.015 million (28%) are receiving the drugs.

Same as late, it only confirms poverty is the biggest factor

Plus you add rape, sexual torture, slave sex trade, broken homes from divorce due to infidelity, on and on you you get real human pain.

About divorces, infidelity is not the only, not the principal, cause of them. Generally, simply the couple cannot stand each other, or even worst, one hurts phisically the other or even kill. Most of the violece relationed with sex is because a dominant position of one person over the other, not intrinsecally by the sex.

On the other hand- War cases deaths, and poverty and suffering,  but i don’t think the total numbers are even close.

True, far of being close. War creates long way more death, poverty and suffering than any sex crime, and often war creates more sexual crimes. Both should be erradicated, sure.

Overpopulation is the real threat and wars have done nothing by comparison. In fact war caused better technology, while overpopulation created better poverty.

Overpopulation is usually caused by bad family planification, usually because, lack of info, usually because poverty… much times poverty being worst because of war.

About war causing better tech…  :? Tech would be better employed investing in alternate energies, building more and better schools, hospitals and etc., than in war. A minimal is needed for the army, sure and sadly, but more than that minimal is all wasting the money and the cientifical potential.

You can freely give away water as well, does that mean it should be illegal to sell water in stores?

Before you dismiss the analogy out of hand, think about it.  It used to be that you’d go into any restaurant in America and get a free glass of water, sitting there ready for you on the table as you approached.  Now they sell you a bottle of water for $1.99.

Well, it used to be you could take a girl out on a date and maybe get some GFE (Girl Friend Experience) freely.  Now you can pay for GFE.

The only real difference is that before it was not assured you would get the good or service, but if you pay for it, you are sure to get the good or service.

Not to mention, some of my girl friends and I made good money to pay for college this way.  Why should we deny men the right to practice the art of breeding just because they are unattractive or over-weight?  Why should we deny a woman the right to determine what does and does not enter her body?

The main difference is mass marketing vs. one at a time marketing.

Just imagine how big the A & A community would be if it was featured in a few dozen of those films a year…

@Cmdr:

Well, it used to be you could take a girl out on a date and maybe get some GFE (Girl Friend Experience) freely.  Now you can pay for GFE.

Sweet, I’ve been wondering what the hell “GFE” was for months now, ever since I started seeing it on Craigslist.  This site is always good for an education.

@dezrtfish:

@Cmdr:

Well, it used to be you could take a girl out on a date and maybe get some GFE (Girl Friend Experience) freely.  Now you can pay for GFE.

Sweet, I’ve been wondering what the hell “GFE” was for months now, ever since I started seeing it on Craigslist.  This site is always good for an education.

Yer welcome, Dezrt.  You can always just ask me, I’m pretty up to date still on the current terminologies of the industry.

Well, I’ll have to put you down as my goto gal for sex and porn  :wink:

Jenn, I’m glad you shared.  First Switch, now you.  It’s not something I would engage in, but I don’t think less of you for doing it, if you were smart about it.

@Imperious:

By sexual disease:

More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981.

Africa has 12 million AIDS orphans.

At the end of 2007, women accounted for 50% of all adults living with HIV worldwide, and for 61% in sub-Saharan Africa.

Young people (under 25 years old) account for half of all new HIV infections worldwide.

In developing and transitional countries, 7.1 million people are in immediate need of life-saving AIDS drugs; of these, only 2.015 million (28%) are receiving the drugs.

I’m going to reiterate what Funcioneta said.  AIDS is not an exclusive STD.  It can be transmitted in a variety of ways that has nothing to do with sex.  And to assume that sex and debauchery is to blame for an epidemic is pretty short sighted.  Also, I guess that “gay man’s” disease is bunk by those statistics.

Having children creates poverty. Children are not coming from thin air…

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2005/JenniferLeong.shtml

And no I’m not saying its these peoples fault.

Again, echoing Funcioneta, sex is absolutely necessary for the continuation of the species (well, ok, maybe science can help in that crisis).  And, it’s even more important that people procreate wisely when facing so many deaths by the AIDS epidemic.  It is devastating countries, which are seeing a drop in population, leading to a decline in economy, rise in poverty, etc. etc.  So the “cause” happens to also be the remedy.  Funny, no?

Plus you add rape, sexual torture, slave sex trade, broken homes from divorce due to infidelity, on and on you you get real human pain.

True, but the scope of this damage is nothing like what happens in war.

On the other hand- War cases deaths, and poverty and suffering,  but i don’t think the total numbers are even close.

Overpopulation is the real threat and wars have done nothing by comparison. In fact war caused better technology, while overpopulation created better poverty.

War is also enormously expensive, especially if you include the rebuilding that comes afterward.  Better poverty?  How is it “better?”  Do you not think that the need to address a rising population necessitates growth, planning, solutions?  And that the demand of AIDS patients stimulates industry, research, and technology?  Undoubtedly war has contributed some to the world, but only after it was applied in a damaging capacity.

@cystic:

anyway, i guess another way to ask the original question, is how are porn directors not charged with prostitution-related crimes?  Or is this a freedom of speech thing?  In which case, any john could plead freedom of expression - i.e. expressing his desire with a “lady-of-the-night”.

This is the crux of the matter.  Now, let’s say you go downtown and film a porn in public - that’s not going to fly, prostitute or not.

@Imperious:

Example: 1 million children can starve in Africa this year, while Europe makes noise about US involvement in Iraq where we lost 4,000…?

No Iraqis were killed/harmed in the making of “Desert Storm 2: Terror Bugaloo?”  I don’t think Europe has a problem here.