OOB Oysteilo +40 v Gamerman01 with tech - UHD map

gamerman01

@oysteilo said in OOB Oysteilo +40 v Gamerman01 with tech - UHD map:

I ill have to look at this tomorrow, but we will find a way I am sure

Yeah, not worried. You have proven yourself generous, even in our game 1 (years ago). Have a nice Saturday, my friend.

gamerman01

@gamerman01 said in OOB Oysteilo +40 v Gamerman01 with tech - UHD map:

Triple A didn’t include the American infantry in the battle. The battle calculator also doesn’t include them, even though there’s a column for the USA.

Upon closer examination, the battle calculator wasn’t wrong,
What happened was the 2 Americans disappeared.
When I calc’d it today, I had clicked at the top of the battle of Korea in the history of the J3 combat phase, and that is AFTER the 2 men disappeared.

Look closely.

When you click at the top of “Battle in 6 Sea Zone” the 2 GIs are there!
Expand it, and click the very first line, Japanese attack with 2 battleships, etc,
And the 2 men disappear!!

That is one strange glitch. But yeah, I caught it because every round went your way except late when you got 1 hit instead of 3, and the result didn’t make sense.

gamerman01

I know you will review this later (like tomorrow), but I think it will help you to know my thoughts when you review.

Of course if the battle of Korea had gone a little worse for me, probably my arty and tank would be gone or I’d have to decide whether to lose a plane to take with a tank.

I would let Korea go (lose a tank) because USA can’t collect from it and Allies really can’t reinforce.

If I had failed to take Korea then I would have looked at J4 differently, and I don’t think you want me to rewind J4, especially because the dice were AWFUL.
I could live with you taking off arty and tank, keeping Korea green, and making me keep J4 and the dice while allowing a couple edits around the Korea area, and keeping Mongolia out.

But I doubt you will make me be that generous.

I think a nice compromise is to take off the artillery and the tank while letting Japan take control of Korea. Realize that then Mongolia will not be activated, and I would move the AA to Cha and the Manchuria tac somewhere else.

Another, and the cleanest and easiest option in my opinion is to take off only the Arty so that the J4 map right now can just stand (minus the arty in Manchuria)

oysteilo

I am not sure what to say here. Regardless of how we do this it wont be right. I can’t believe that this happened! It is unreal that the green men in a green territory isnt counted! Anyway, I have 8 “twos” that never rolled and as you say on average they score 2-3 hits extra.

I remember now, when I looked at this the TUV swing should be about +6 for you, it ended up with +31 because of the error.

If I run the battle with just 23 units (like triple A did) the TUV swing is 20

I think this strongly indicate that as a minimum 2 more units should be removed. One of the scenarios you talk about is:

“I think a nice compromise is to take off the artillery and the tank while letting Japan take control of Korea. Realize that then Mongolia will not be activated, and I would move the AA to Cha and the Manchuria tac somewhere else.”

I think this is fair although ideally you should chose if you want to keep the armor with a plane down or you want korea to be green. All combat moves in Russia are easy to edit, no dice are involved and it does not impact the china battles (I think, not looked super carefully).

I realize you share this infomation voluntarinly and you could have kept going without me probably noticing it. I give you thumps up for that! Good sportmansship! But i am not sure that is an argument to just take off the arty though? After all I have 8 twos that never rolled. If that is the option you prefer, than we might as well leave it the way it is.

I also think many people would have wanted 8 twos to be rolled, but that opens a whole new box of if this and if that with option of retreat for attacker not honored. The most likely scenario is three extra hits, but two is also fair. This is my take on it, so I play it back to you now. I will accept what you come back with

oysteilo

In short, my wish is two more japanese units down, your option to leave korea green or keep korea with a plane down. But as I say, I will accept what you come back with

gamerman01

@oysteilo I really appreciate that you thought it through like I did and shared your thoughts.

With your feedback, I’m going to remove the tank and artillery and leave Korea green. I’ll even roll the convoy roll for US3 just in case you can get an IPC or 3.

Give me time to edit around Russia. I am willing to just alter my J4 move a little even though I made it thinking Korea was secure and I had an artillery and tank on it, that’s all OK.

I will have a transport in Z6 and will drop 2 units on Korea to take it, instead of going South, so indeed it is a significant setback that I actually caught it and volunteered it, but I couldn’t have it any other way.

Thanks! Should get to it some time today.

gamerman01

@oysteilo said in OOB Oysteilo +40 v Gamerman01 with tech - UHD map:

I am not sure what to say here. Regardless of how we do this it wont be right. I can’t believe that this happened! It is unreal that the green men in a green territory isnt counted!

I think I got it. Here is a summary.

Tank and artillery that survived Korea are removed. The tank that was removed was the one that activated Mongolia by combat move on Amur and Buryatia.

AA moved to Cha instead of Manchuria.
Tac that went to Manchuria goes to Kiangsi
Transport that took FIC with 2 infantry instead takes Korea with infantry, mech. Transport that noncommed to Kiangsi takes 2 infantry instead of infantry, mech

Japan income reduced by 4, 2 from Russia, 2 from FIC. All ownership of territories reverted.

I see drawbacks and benefits for each of us, but I think it’s fair. While one might complain that I saved my transport at 36, it makes sense because I needed to take Korea and that would be the transport I would do it with.

Here is the file,
J4 edits because of Triple A glitch on Korea.tsvg

Thanks a lot, Triple A. First time I’ve ever seen anything like that. Almost makes me want to test the same scenario in the map we’ve used for many years, whatever that map is called.
A headache for both of us.

gamerman01

And to lighten the mood, here is the convoy roll for US3 for Korea

[dice 14d6<=3]

dicebot

14d6<=3: 4, 4, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 6, 5, 2, 2, 4; Hits: 9

gamerman01

15 damage, nothing gets back to California.

gamerman01

@oysteilo said in OOB Oysteilo +40 v Gamerman01 with tech - UHD map:

As a consequence I offer you to possition transport(s) or possibly other boats in “liberal” positons if that is of any interest. Not much, I know.

I think we understand each other well enough. I definitely don’t want a couple units to make a problem between us or even take away from this crazy (UHD tech) game at all.

I appreciate the generosity, if I understand you correctly, and did change the one loaded transport which I think should be OK. Trying to keep changes to a minimum. Glad you also see that it is a quite complicated situation since we are trying to respect die rolls, including the horrible J4 dice, and trying to look at many different angles of the consequences of this heinous glitch by Triple A.

I think we’re intact and feeling good enough going forward.
I like that we’re trying to keep dice, like not going back to J3 and re-rolling and then replaying every turn.

Just feel free to tell me if I’m not understanding you - like I said, despite my competitive instincts I prize mutually enjoyable play over winning at all costs and I know you do too

I think it’s awesome that you are diving in to all these details and trying to work it out with me

Have a great Monday!

oysteilo

I am happy with your posted map. I hope you are too!

This looks like a good way to go forward. Thank you for figuring out the error, I missed it 100%

gamerman01

Really glad to hear

gamerman01

Just a final note. Even with arty and armor down you are still at +21 at the Korea battle. Expected outcome is +6, so it is still a good result for you.

I think this might make you feel better, too. And I can’t resist the analysis.

It was lucky for me to lose 1/6 on AA. The average (+6, like you said) includes all the possibilities of more than 1 plane getting hit by AA.

I ran a calc on an old and reliable calculator I have. I ran it with no AA and took one Jap plane off. The median result (after taking 1/6 AA fire) is that I end up with 1 or 2 ground units without taking off any more planes.

If you follow what I’m saying, the +6 expected outcome actually goes up after the actual 1/6 AA result, so would be closer to the +21.

Looking again, after you rolled a couple extra hits in the first round, the second and third round were poor rolls for the defender. Combined with a 1/6 AA that is actually good for the attacker even though it is the expected number of hits,

We came to a very fair conclusion, I think 🧐

gamerman01

One of your posts from yesterday may have been lost.

I was replying to your statement (see previous post) and it didn’t appear to post. Then I noticed it seemed to have over-written a post of yours, so my post was assigned to you. So I re-posted and deleted the messed up post, which might have been something that you had said.

Just full disclosure - sorry, I don’t know what I misclicked

gamerman01

Oh my, I am really belaboring this messed up battle, but just saw that the history shows 2 USA infantry in the casualties at the end of the battle summary. If you click through round by round, it never took 2 USA infantry off, but there they are at the end. Bizarre. And when I decided to attack, it was based on the less favorable calculation that did include the 2 US infantry because they didn’t disappear from the engine until the battle of Zone 6, and of course I made the decision and the calc before the conduct combat phase.

Apparently it got confused by the battle of Zone 6 and the 2 infantry on Korea, who knows why.

But there they are again at the end of the Korea battle?! Just, what???

oysteilo

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 4

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: UHD World War II Global

Game History

Round: 4

    Research Technology - Americans
        Americans spend 10 on tech rolls
            Americans roll 2,6 and gets 1 hit
        Americans removing all Technology Tokens after successful research.
        Americans discover Heavy Bomber

    Activate Technology - Americans
        Americans activating Heavy Bomber

    Purchase Units - Americans

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

oysteilo

yeah. I agree with everything you write above, its really weird. I had all sorted out, but now I have heavy bombers so I migh take a moment to praise the dice goods and see what else they can rin to my mind

gamerman01

I’m still not used to cheap 12 IPC bombers and now America has heavies?!

Well, you certainly earned them, so many tech misses!

oysteilo

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 4

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: UHD World War II Global

Game History

Round: 4

    Research Technology - Americans
        Americans spend 10 on tech rolls
            Americans roll 2,6 and gets 1 hit
        Americans removing all Technology Tokens after successful research.
        Americans discover Heavy Bomber

    Activate Technology - Americans
        Americans activating Heavy Bomber

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 5 submarines and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 0 techTokens; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans Friendly With Mongolians activates a trigger called: Trigger Allies Friendly With Mongolians

    Combat Move - Americans
        3 submarines moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone

    Combat - Americans

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

OOB Oysteilo +40 v Gamerman01 with tech - UHD map

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 4

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 4

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