AARHE: Rule files

@Imperious:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=12105.0

oh
thought we were talking about grammar fixes

anyway that list is a list of issues and needed clarifications
first item

1. issues on terrain benefits and how they effect naval invasions.

its going to be difficult for me to track down the posts of the related discussion

prioritise and bring up one issue at a time
post the question again or link a post

@Imperious:

Tekkyy : please make this clear in the 1939 file. I notice its not explained how these work. lets discuss.

ah yes the national victory
they are just used for assessment rather than ending a game
(ending a game follows non-optional portion of AARHE rules)
just because Japan reaches its goals, it doesn’t make the war in Europe ends

anyway I don’t have the time to maintain the 1939 file
its a doc file
just edit it
and email it to me and I put it on my webspace

AS you can see some of these need work. They are too easy for say Germany to get them done.

too easy?
besides Seize Mideast Oil all of them are like end game situations and can’t be achieved early game

They have no viability if they are just useless ideas that have no effect on victory.

national victory conditions are a guage of national success

how else do you want to use them?
should war in Europe end when war in Asia is won by Japan

its a complex combination of team, national, city, income victory condtions, and also limited-turns game
depends what you want

I can do this, but the problems are with the 4.0 and not the 1939 file.

my comment was regarding changes to 1939 that you would like

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=12105.0

ah, yes
thats also what I quoted in my last post

those are not grammar/wording changes or specific adjustments that I can just go to do
and my reply was bring up one item as a time, discussing them in the existing thread if discussion started already

@Imperious:

They are easier to achieve than the normal VC. I don’t see the value in them because we have victory conditions, and these most likely would be easy to also achieve if your close to victory.

Japan can do well and win for the Axis while Germany finishes the game without achieving enough of the national victory conditions

yes but if they have no formal duty, they are just fluff

they do have a duty
if you don’t achieve them, you lost “nationally”

Yes that was the idea with them originally, it should be possible for one axis nation to win and the other to fail

to me once you considered all the possible combinations, you realise its not easy to define how to end the game
Germany could be in a good shape
but because Japan achieves their conditions the game ends and Germany loses
doesn’t seem right

the quick fix would be to make national victory conditions the 4th game mode
that way you don’t have to worry about how it tanggles up with the city, IPC, etc game modes

so partnerships dont need to take place to the extent they do under our current VC. THAT was the entire point of historical victory conditions. I feel we need to make a batter effort to tie this together to give it vitality and drive this point home.

yeah, we can use national victory conditions as the 4th separate game mode

oh yeah I just realise we don’t have to add 4th game mode
its already there under Historical Victory

currently Victory Condition is

_Victory is achieved if victory conditions are maintained for one full game round. Three game modes are possible.

Victory City: Axis wins if they control 45 VCP (Victory City Points). Allies win if they control 55 VCP. Each victory city has a VCP value.

Historical Victory: The first nation that achieves it ranks first, with other nations ranking second and third accordingly. A list of historical victory conditions is found at the appendix.

Economic Victory: Both teams bid the number of rounds that they want the game to last. The team that bids the higher number of turns plays Axis. The team controlling the majority of territory IPC at the end wins the game._

so I’ll change Historical Victory to this?

National Victory: Three national goals are selected randomly. The first nation to achieve the goals wins. A list of national victory conditions are found at the appendix[page blah].

um you saying you don’t want historical victory anymore?

(just after we have AA50, with the same style historical conditions…)

“IPC bonus of X IPC a turn” is just the individual economic victory in classic no?

@Imperious:

Lets assign our Historical victory as IPC. You decide how much. Look at the ones for AA50 in the fact sheet.

so its going to be a free-for-all game mode?
instead of historical conditions, its just IPC level?

no thats more like AARIL 1.0  :wink:
notice some changes

what do you want to change?
language? structure? rules?

discuss, agree, and do only one thing thanks
(eg. if its language then you change that and touch nothing else…)

this is how I did it in the past months
someone sugguest, we discuss, agree and I update the changelog

otherwise I’ll have to compare to current file side-by-side
slowly and painfully discover and discuss what you’ve changed!

seems to me that list is far from complete
I only glanced at the file and I can recall a few changes like IC cost
I believe you’re reinventing the wheel, AARHE:Lite has a simplified system already

@Imperious:

Yes its a step toward a less fat AARHE. Its got some cuts, but took the ideas and made the result less painfull to go thru as far as some of the more tedious steps in combat.

we’ve reduced the complexity of AARHE alot since the peak
but if you still find it tedious (though I have a feeling you are thinking the old rules)
then you are hammering away at the wrong thing!
read AARHE:Lite again and we go from there

AARHE:Lite’s combat is not tedious
*minimal combat sequence change from LHTR
*most realism is done via hit allocation

quite efficient

of course i have a latter file, but will look at CAP as a support for losing some of the naval flavor.

strange, very strange
you want to remove the tedious combat steps and yet introduce CAP again?
if we use a simple non-tedious system (like that in AARHE:Lite) and add CAP in…it’ll be so awarkard
everything is simple and suddenly there is CAP with big proportions

to refresh your memeory
we had CAP before! remember?
but got rid of it because it was just too much
players already have to do ASW allocation
the naval combat sequence was crazy with the mega combo of ASW + CAP + submarine fire + more…

(AARHE:Lite don’t even have ASW allocation)

The air missions are all together

but air missions were already all together, in Conduct Combat

except for two paragraphs in Combat Move
*air mission, merely a reminder that you can now declare air missions in Combat Move besides LHTR’s ‘attack’ and ‘SBR’
*DAS/Air Reinforcement, this is NOT an air mission (this is merely a rule to allow relocation of air units before combat)

anyway I haven’t been as keen as you have been with having “air missions” in a less fat AARHE

ASW tech went down a box

changes due to lots of playtesting of all of the included new concepts

ID is gone. Its too much seasoning and not enough flavor…so AA gun is back, but modified

the goal was not to leave ambiguity. It should require perhaps 2 reads to be clear.

Historical VC is gone… not enough bang for the buck

SPA was not utilzed well enough

only
*ASW tech down a box
*removal of historical victory condition
were discussed

anyway these two and the other changes, if we do them, I have to do to both AARHE and AARHE:Lite and update the two changelogs

in the end
so how do you want to do this less fat AARHE?
I believe the best and shortest way is to work on AARHE:Lite

make AARHE:Lite your 97% fat free AARHE

1. you sugguest, we tick off

2. I upate AARHE:Lite (and on AARHE too if relevant)

3. when its done, only then, you do your transform/language/MSWORD thingy

vision
I think this updated AARHE:Lite will bring great things for us
lets playtest electronically finally

you say the list of your changes is from playtesting
but I know, I know what the situation really is
you’ve always played AARHE marginally different with your group
at times, more differently than oldsalty or Bierwagen

after we update AARHE:Lite
we playtest against each other ok?
this project needs to more or less finalise

AARHE:Lite will be the result of our work after all this (since 2006)
a common point we agree on
where as AARHE full thing, everyone just play it differently