Italy and Anzac Strategies?

@marshmallowofwar said in Italy and Anzac Strategies?:

@anzacguy That is a big question in a little sentence. I will try to answer as concisely as possible, but it is impossible to answer in specifics.

First, Italy.

Italy is the only Axis power that depends totally on the actions of the Allies to decide its course of action. If the UK does things right, Italy has very limited options.

Assuming the UK does things right, Italy can and should provide ground forces to free up German resources for the destruction of Russia. After defending itself, Italy should position itself to help with the defense of West Germany, Southern France, and Normandy (assuming Germany or Italy was dumb enough to take Normandy).

I disagree with this. If Italy is being threatened by the allies early then Germany and Japan are not doing their jobs properly. Japan can and should force the USA to build in the pacific or risk losing the game outright.

Also, giving up free income in France is a bad idea.

@squirecam I think @MarshmallowofWar is talking about a Taranto attack UK1, or Gibraltar defense. Both of which lead to the early demise of the Italian fleet. There is almost nothing the Germans can do on G1 to stop Taranto other than add 1 ftr to scramble. Assuming a small bid of a sub in the Med, and Italy is probably toast.

Eliminating Italy early is a very good Allied strategy as it frees up one possible theater from immediate Axis control and allows the Allies to focus spending elsewhere.

Regarding Normandy…this is a rather surprising gambit that is remarkably effective.
I’ve used it in a couple of games now with positive results. Typically, the Axis take Normandy either turn 1 or 2. By turn 4 or 5, the allies should have a sub parked off shore and convoying the territory so that the Axis gain little from it. As soon as the US is ready, they can begin the invasion of Normandy to get the factory. The Axis have to work to throw the US off and trading units at a disadvantage since typically there are naval bombardments + aircraft for the Allies to get “free hits”.

By leaving Normandy to the French, the Allied attack on the beach doesn’t provide the gains it normally does, and the Axis only lose ~8-10IPCs to not have to worry about the Atlantic for a few extra turns — which in the race for Russia is a big deal.

@anzacguy said in Italy and Anzac Strategies?:

@surfer I have never heard of the Gibraltar Defense(I am a new player). Could you explain the strategy behind it?

You dont attack the IT fleet but instead sit your fleet by Gibraltar.

Look on youtube for Young Grasshoppers video where he is playing a solo game. It didnt work and UK is in trouble because of it.

https://youtu.be/JW7xMjGuLM0

@anzacguy said in Italy and Anzac Strategies?:

@surfer I have never heard of the Gibraltar Defense(I am a new player). Could you explain the strategy behind it?

it’s discussed here https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/33835/why-is-taranto-raid-so-popular/30?page=2

some top players talk about it

@barnee said in Italy and Anzac Strategies?:

@anzacguy said in Italy and Anzac Strategies?:

@surfer I have never heard of the Gibraltar Defense(I am a new player). Could you explain the strategy behind it?

it’s discussed here https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/33835/why-is-taranto-raid-so-popular/30?page=2

some top players talk about it

And it doesn’t work. Because Germany should always take Southern France and Italy should either attack with a German follow up or take Algeria and let the Germans attack first.

Gibbastion is not so easily dismissed.

I can’t find the original post (i.e. I cannot take credit for this), and some of the details may be off due to my poor memory, but a very effective way to reinforcing SZ92 on UK1 that prevents Italian and German counter-attack is to reinforce Algeria + DD blocker in SZ94. The airbase in Gibraltar UK1 becomes optional, if S. France is not taken on G1, but probably a good idea for max insurance (detailed below)

UK1 attacks SZ96 with tac+ftr+DD–but DD cannot die.
Hold Egypt with max land units. Consider sending mech to Syria to ensure French inf remains viable, if Vichy is in play.

The DD + french units prevent Italy from sending anything besides aircraft against UK fleet (which presumably consists of 1 CV, 2 CA, 1 DD (from SZ109), 1 tac, 1 ftr–after typical German attack on SZ110)

Algeria has 1 French inf + 1 UK inf + AA from Malta + 2 inf from Scotland + 3 ftrs from UK.

Italy can

1. suicide 2 ftr + sb against fleet – assuming as @squirecam says, Germany takes S. France–but Vichy is off table. But nothing much is gained, UK would have bought an airbase in Gibraltar (as mentioned above), so the CV can take a hit and the DD + possibly tac if necessary. The Luftwaffe can’t really retaliate without Algeria. 2 sb (W. Ger) + 1 ftr (in S. Italy after G1 to “defend” Taranto).

2. attack on Algeria-- with 2 transports (2 inf + 1 art + 1 tank) + 1 sb + 2ftr at 15%. That pesky DD prevents the Naval bombard that would be devastating.

3. Attack Egypt which has 5 inf + 1 tank + 2 art + probably 1 mech since Vichy off table vs (2 inf + 1 art + 1 tank) + 1 sb + 3 bombard attacks ~ 10% attack.

Once, UK gets past the first round, the fleet can escape to the Atlantic if necessary to wait for the US to join the battle. Ftrs can go to Egypt to defend, and a factory can be built in Egypt to ensure the near term survival.

@surfer said in Italy and Anzac Strategies?:

Gibbastion is not so easily dismissed.

I can’t find the original post (i.e. I cannot take credit for this), and some of the details may be off due to my poor memory, but a very effective way to reinforcing SZ92 on UK1 that prevents Italian and German counter-attack is to reinforce Algeria + DD blocker in SZ94. The airbase in Gibraltar UK1 becomes optional, if S. France is not taken on G1, but probably a good idea for max insurance (detailed below)

UK1 attacks SZ96 with tac+ftr+DD–but DD cannot die.
Hold Egypt with max land units. Consider sending mech to Syria to ensure French inf remains viable, if Vichy is in play.

The DD + french units prevent Italy from sending anything besides aircraft against UK fleet (which presumably consists of 1 CV, 2 CA, 1 DD (from SZ109), 1 tac, 1 ftr–after typical German attack on SZ110)

Algeria has 1 French inf + 1 UK inf + AA from Malta + 2 inf from Scotland + 3 ftrs from UK.

Italy can

1. suicide 2 ftr + sb against fleet – assuming as @squirecam says, Germany takes S. France–but Vichy is off table. But nothing much is gained, UK would have bought an airbase in Gibraltar (as mentioned above), so the CV can take a hit and the DD + possibly tac if necessary. The Luftwaffe can’t really retaliate without Algeria. 2 sb (W. Ger) + 1 ftr (in S. Italy after G1 to “defend” Taranto).

2. attack on Algeria-- with 2 transports (2 inf + 1 art + 1 tank) + 1 sb + 2ftr at 15%. That pesky DD prevents the Naval bombard that would be devastating.

3. Attack Egypt which has 5 inf + 1 tank + 2 art + probably 1 mech since Vichy off table vs (2 inf + 1 art + 1 tank) + 1 sb + 3 bombard attacks ~ 10% attack.

Once, UK gets past the first round, the fleet can escape to the Atlantic if necessary to wait for the US to join the battle. Ftrs can go to Egypt to defend, and a factory can be built in Egypt to ensure the near term survival.

Look at the YG YouTube I posted above. Italy has odds on Algeria and UK is in trouble after round one. I don’t think it’s as easy as you make it sound.

@squirecam No disrepect to @Young-Grasshopper , but the video neglects the option of UK to put a DD in SZ94. This is major decider in these battles, and a key factor to the Gibbastion strategy. (Disclaimer–I did not watch the entire video, only fast forwarded to disposition of UK forces at beginning of I1, and there was no DD in SZ94.)

Without it, yes, Italy can sink the fleet, or if bad dice, cause severe damage that Germany finishes off.

The above moves are without any Allied bid units, which could only strengthen the British position.

I’m not promoting Gibbastion as the answer to all things “what do I do in the Med?”, but it is completely viable. The problem with Gibbastion is that Italy now has options. Not necessary to rush to Egypt on I1–which should fail, but can build up forces and try for I2 or I3 attacks. UK now has to worry about Med plays as well as everything else. Makes the game more complex, which depending upon your skill and play-style is a good thing or bad.

@squirecam said in Italy and Anzac Strategies?:

@barnee said in Italy and Anzac Strategies?:

@anzacguy said in Italy and Anzac Strategies?:

@surfer I have never heard of the Gibraltar Defense(I am a new player). Could you explain the strategy behind it?

it’s discussed here https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/33835/why-is-taranto-raid-so-popular/30?page=2

some top players talk about it

And it doesn’t work. Because Germany should always take Southern France and Italy should either attack with a German follow up or take Algeria and let the Germans attack first.

heh heh was just pointing out where it was discussed since he hadn’t heard of it. JDOW was League Champion or at least in the Finals. Oystello and Simon both Top Players. Sure I missed a few, but wouldn’t dismiss their opinions as unviable :)