I think CA makes more sense for CArrier that Cruiser.
Sorry I didn’t explain earlier.
The abbreviations of naval units are US hull classifications.
Yes exactly! but was this the correct value? was it not:
Cruiser (CA) 4
Destroyer (DD) 2
Battleship (BB) 2
Carrier (CV) 1
ok sure
anyway, but is it too powerful?
a Cruiser fleet, 66% chance of downing an air division, every cycle of combat
Cruiser (CA) 3
Destroyer (DD) 2
Battleship (BB) 2
Carrier (CV) 1
ok you like this?
I duno.
I only hear 10% of downed planes are due to land antiaircraft, 90% by enemy planes.
I have no idea whats the breakdown for naval combat.
Why don’t you make it a flat “1” and just increase the amount of die each ship rolls?
GG
I suppose that can be done except that demonstates purely a quantity thing. Id go with that ok:
Cruiser (CA) 4
Destroyer (DD) 2
Battleship (BB) 3
Carrier (CV) 2
example: 4 enemy planes are attacking a BB and 3 destroyers. Each destroyer can sheild the BB at the rate of 1/1… thus each of 3 destroyers are allocating potential hits with the 4th plane getting a possible shot on the BB. Each destroyer in turn takes 2 rolls of D6 for a total of 6 rolls… yeilding 1 hit… the BB rolls seperately and also hits.
thus out of 4 planes 2 are shot down. The BB shot down its plane so it cannot be hit this round.
next each plane attacks: yeilding 2 hits… 2 destroyers are lost.
we are left with one bb and one destroyer.
the attacker wants to attack again…
each plane must go against each ship because the remaining destroyer is sheilding the BB.
both surface ships roll seperatly 2 rolls each… all misses
each plane now fires and again gets two hits!
the destroyer is sunk and the BB is also hit ( takes 2 hits)
the defender decides to retreat… end of battle.
this is how it would go. I like it as well. its just alot of dice rolling…
Wasn’t that was available? More firepower? Some ships had more guns, flat rate of hit, more chances to hit… Makes sense to me…
GG
ok sounds good
note the percentages are now…
CA 4 * 1/6 = 66%
BB 3 * 1/6 = 50%
DD 2 * 1/6 = 33%
CV 2 * 1/6 = 33%
ok good add it to the file. thanks Tekky! 8-)
That looks great.
A small concern - As UK in a game I’m currently playing with Botider I sent a DD after his Japanese transport first turn as UK. The DD was sunk, and the transport lived! Now this may half be that I’m angry, but I don’t think that makes sense. How can a transport group sink destroyers? Throw food at them?
yep we thought about that too
we made it that transport can’t hurt anything but transports
hits by heavy units go against heavy units first
hits by light units go against light units first
can’t use sack transports
(Can’t imagine transports dashing out in front of a Battleship taking hits for it can you?)
even more importantly submarines can’t hurt submarines in WWII
(Well, I thought it was important…so I pushed to convince them to include it in Phase 1 when everything else can still flaky)
in the current draft…
Naval Combat Hit Allocation
SS hits must be allocated on non-SS naval units.
BB and CV hits must be allocated on BB or CV first, then CA or DD, finally AP.
CA and DD hits must be first allocated on CA or DD first, then BB or CV, finally AP.
AP hits must be allocated on AP.
WWII Submarines did not have anti-submarine nor antiaircraft capabilities.
Capital ships are primary targets in a naval battle. Different classes of warships have their role.
That’s good. Wish it had been in use during my game :-)
in LHTR 1.3, submarines can’t submerge if enemy destroyer is present
can AARHE submarines submerge and withdraw from combat if enemy has destroyers or cruisers present?
the other thread about submarine submering http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=7275.0 shown some ideas
*submarine chance to move through enemy SZ with destroyer/crusier - we could have that, but don’t think we need to force all submarines to fight when some submarines are detected
*detection model - our draft at the moment each DD can target one SS with search dice as well as attack dice…I think we may need to change it to each DD rolls as many search dice as enemy SS, but can only roll an attack dice against one detected SS
*number of DDs don’t make detection easier - is this more or less realistic?
*“submerge time limit” and “submerge in non-combat” - probably not needed, submarines can only remain submerged for hours, so that would be tactical level. I think the OOB rule of resurfacing at the end of the turn is good enough leaving “submerge” meaning “submerge and retreat” rather than “submerge and remain submerged for months”
That is 100% correct.
Tekky is their anything left for naval combat?
aside from the DIV, NAV problems?
Nothing else I think.
Just this little bit more on submarines.
That is 100% correct.
What are you referring to?
*SS can’t submerge with enemy DD presence?
*ASW search roll in combat move?
*my radar sugguestion?
So we can put project time on Technology, National Advantage, National Victory Condition and call it phase 2.
Looking forward to phase 3 (probably 2 weeks from now?) with Economic attacks and stuff.
*SS can’t submerge with enemy DD presence?
++++ yes thay can after a round of combat. or they can retreat
*ASW search roll in combat move?
+++ yes each ASW ship rolls one d6 looking for search on 2 or less… if they locate then each ASW ship AND any BB can get one free shot on subs at 2 or less… latter with sufficient ASW tech planes can participate in ASW search ( at 2 or less) and further level allows them to attack under ASW .
*my radar sugguestion?
So we can put project time on Technology, National Advantage, National Victory Condition and call it phase 2.
++++ yes good.
Looking forward to phase 3 (probably 2 weeks from now?) with Economic attacks and stuff.
+++ yes what exactly is left for phase three?
@Imperious:
+++ yes each ASW ship rolls one d6 looking for search on 2 or less… if they locate then each ASW ship AND any BB can get one free shot on subs at 2 or less… latter with sufficient ASW tech planes can participate in ASW search ( at 2 or less) and further level allows them to attack under ASW .
I haven’t came to agree on letting BB attacks SS yet.
But for the “search on 2 or less” we would call it ASW search roll with -1 modifier to cater for technology modifiers.
*my radar sugguestion?
You didn’t reply to this.
And actually I meant sonar sugguestion.
+++ yes what exactly is left for phase three?
I only recall Economic attacks and National Advantage.
Thats right I don’t think National Advantage is completed enough to say its been moved to phase 2.
ok… we have to shift some things into phase three so that its a layered scheme of complexity increasing at each stage.
what do you mean in particular? Economic attacks and National Advantage are already phase 3 stuff.
After we are done we will look again at what seemed more complex and move a few things around in other slots.
We have renewed discussions about Naval Combat Retreats in the phase 2 draft release thread.
*Sea zone is large and movement fluid
(don’t want to restrict to “where you came from”)
*casual hopping-over enemy
(don’t what them to hop-over and launch amphibious assault or attack weaker fleets later)
*Remaiining force should have say
(how many directions can you prevent retreats from retreating to? the way attacker came from? relative unit numbers involved ?)
*Number of cycles
(the further into combat, the less “where you came from” affects where you can retreat to or preventing retreat to)
