Russia Question

You would be unable to attack East Poland in this situation without first declaring war on Germany.

In the situation described above, either Russia declares war on Germany and attacks the German and the Italian units in East Poland, or Russia does not declare war on Germany and is barred from attacking the German and the Italian units in East Poland.

@Axis:

Powers Not at War with One Another
Combat: A power can’t attack a territory controlled by or containing units belonging to a power with which it is not at war…

You might be thinking of the at-sea addendum to the combat section…
@Axis:

… If a power at war attacks a sea zone containing units belonging to both a power with which it’s already at war and a power with which it’s not at war, the latter power’s units are ignored. Those units won’t participate in the battle in any way, and a state of war with that power will not result.

-Midnight_Reaper

yea I think in BM they made it so you can’t move into original Russian TTs without being at war with them. Seems like a good fix

@Leatherneckinlv:

This is incorrect….East Poland is a original Russian territory…Germans are neutral…Russia may in fact and has the right to regain it’s territory back from a combatant…neutral Germany now must decide to withdraw or declare war and stay in the territory

Some misunderstandings of the rules here: Germany is not neutral, as it starts the game already being at war. The rules don’t contain a concept of a nation being at war on the one hand and on the other hand being neutral to other nations. A power is either at war or neutral. At the start of the game only USA and Russia are neutral.
In the given scenario Germany is at war - but not with Russia.

It is completely irrelevant, that East Poland is an original Russian territory. At the time Germany does the NCM East Poland is Italian and thus friendly to Germany.

Of course Russia may regain its territory, but it has to declare war on Germany for doing so and fight both occupying nations.

Also the rules don’t contain the concept of a retreating defender. When Russia attacks East Poland it is only Russia that may - during the battle - retreat, provided the retreat rules apply. Neither do the rules contain a concept of a neutral nation that retreats.

@Leatherneckinlv:

Midnight Reaper….there is in fact a combatant in that territory…you would be right if it was only a neutral Germany only in East Poland…this is not the case…there is a Italian combatant in the territory

No, if Russia wants to attack East Poland it must declare war on Germany - so there are two combattants to fight against.

@Leatherneckinlv:

Movement by the Germans into Russia should be a deceleration of war by Germany in my opinion….this is a broken rule that should be clarified more precisely as I am positive Russia may regain it’s territory. Quite broken that Germany can non combat move and collect a bonus for not at war with Russia while it is occupying the territory with absolutely 0 benefit to the Russians and hindering their defense even more

No. Germany does not move into a Russian territory but into an Italian - thus friendly - territory. Not a broken rule, but a core rule of Axis&Allies games that allows to bring units into friendly territories.

Marsh and Midnight_Reaper are correct.

@Leatherneckinlv:

Only thing missing is the verbal instructions by the Russians telling the Germans to withdraw leaving a decision by the Germans to either withdraw or declare war

So yes Russia may only attack the Italians and instruct the Germans to withdraw

This is not covered by the rulebooks in any way. Please read my above clarification.

@Leatherneckinlv:

Panther

Germany is not at war with Russia though….they are neutrals to one another

State of war only exists between Italy and Russia

They are not at war, but neither they are neutral. And the territory is Italian and no longer Russian.
And all of this leads to the fact that Russia has to declare war on Germany for being able to attack East Poland.

Midnight_Reaper had the correct quote from the rulebook about that (see above). Russia can’t attack without DOW on Germany.

Italians attack Russia, Germany is automatically at war with Russia, that is the assumption that my group has always used.

Another thing to remember is that Italy can-opening for Germany doesn’t stop Russia from declaring war on Germany and punching the Germans in the mouth (emphasis added):

@Axis:

The Political Situation
The Soviet Union
The Soviet Union begins the game at war with no one.
{snip}
As a result, the Soviet Union may not declare war on any Axis power before its fourth turn unless an Axis power declares war on it first. However, if London is captured by an Axis power, the Soviet Union may declare war on its following turn.

But you must declare war on Germany before you can attack a territory with German units inside.

-Midnight_Reaper

Russia can attack a Russian territory that has been captured. If the Germans move into that territory, after being captured, I think the assumption would be that they have also declared war on Russia.

If The Italians captured a Russian territory, and Germany did not go on a full blown offensive on their next turn, and instead decided to consolidate to the Italian captured territory, what would the purpose of this be? Show the Russians and ultimately the Allies exactly what direction you are going, and take it slow? Doesn’t make sense. And furthermore, the rules don’t make it very clear, but if the Italians attack the Russians and take a territory, and the Germans occupy it, that is a declaration of war. Total war in Europe begins.