USA Theory: Getting on Norway early

I wasn’t suggesting a series of hypothetical counters, Mr. Shadowhawk.

I don’t sacrifice that BB for anything.  I was stating that adding only 1 ship (either carrier or destroyer) makes the Germany fleet well defended. (Battleship + Cruiser + Destroyer + 3 planes) and you cannot defeat it without being able to bring ships (cant through skaggerak) or fighters (nowhere to land by the time it is your turn).

UK goes after Germany so US will not hold the territory when the planes need to land there.

UK subs cant get through the straights to attack, and it is the UK not the US that has to “open the door”.  If the UK takes Denmark, it cant move through until the next turn, only US can.  Germany AND Italy go before the UK goes again so the US in the case that you are describing has to hold out by itself for an entire turn.

I’m not simply trying to shoot this idea down by proposing a series of hypotheticals;  the realities are on G4

1. Germany will have a fleet that can attack or relieve Denmark
2. a competent Germany will have 10+ planes at this juncture
3. units built on Germany are cheap and can attack Norway the turn after they are built, also their transports are not being lost
4. while US units take 2-3 turns to arrive and you only have 1 opening wave and can never lose a transport stack vs endless waves of reinforcements
5. taking piecemeal Germany territories may sound like a good strategic moves but they aren’t
6. once you have 6+ American bombers you now have choices this takes many turns and Japan runs free
7. KGF is harder than KJF, and there is no “early KGF”
8. this is because every square is within easy reach of their newly built units and Germany has abundant income and time to prepare because of the diplomatic rules/their overwhelmingly strong position

“attack Norway” not Denmark, though they can always take Denmark back also its extremely easy, pretty much no matter what the Allies put there.    I’ve played games where we took Denmark AND Norway (by US5 G42) and the Germans still pushed us back off/stalemated them move because we didn’t have enough offensive power attack from both land and sea.

From my experience, Germany usually has enough transports/men in Finland so that any landing in Norway is countered and ineffective.

Plus any fleet action has to account for the entire German air force/navy from pouncing on you.  Not a small thing.

For Germany it’s very important to be able to retake Norway. The Allies can tie down some troops in Finland because of this but it’s not unexpected. If Germany lets the allies take Norway, this is a huge drag on them and they wish they retain troops there instead to retake it…

Usually the path to harass the Axis in Europe involves UK contesting Normandy and Holland (free income and forces the Axis to spend to take them back, this almost pays for itself) and keeping the threat on Germany on with the US in position to invade Denmark (while threatening Southern Italy at the same time). Bombers are used against France and West Germany where possible.

There is nothing wrong to ferry US transports back and forth and have the fast US units speed through North Africa (leaving the slow units behind to be the opener in Denmark or threat on Southern Italy), it’s good to have these in the Middle east later in the game.

Keeping a surface ship in the Med is a good thing, you may be able to do that cheaply if you can use the Gibraltar air base and place a ship there before Italy’s turn. You get big leverage out of this which helps maintain a large enough fleet in 110.

Besides keeping that threat alive, the focus should be to hold Egypt, the Middle East, and clearing off / convoying the Med.

Given the supply lines, UK is better off building ground troops, US is better to build up Navy and bombers.

Once the UK can afford it, up the ante. That is, drop larger number of troops on the shore or accumulate a greater force that can reinforce Norway or Invade Germany through the Denmark straights. When that force accumulates enough it can also be used to hold Normandy after the US takes it. The US can crank cheap units to contest Southern France also and most importantly Normandy allows you to bomb Germany directly (usually the German air won’t be sufficient to defend all factories)

In order for all this to work, it’s key to wear down the German air force (this saves on required naval builds and also helps take pressure off of Russia). Dropping AA guns to reinforce the beach head will usually force the defender to commit more land units, or planes. If you can down a plane that way it’s great. If opportunity presents itself to trade allied planes or ships against German planes, try to do so. That means there is nothing wrong sending 3 bombers against 4 fighters, the bombers that get through will cause significant damage and while the air battle is a little less than even, it’s a way to reduce the German air force. Reducing German air force has many benefits such as helping future raids, making it more expensive to retake beach heads, reducing threat on ships, reducing ultimate offensive punch on Eastern front, etc.)

So basically the allies must be a pest, contest income, harass and wear down German air force and production. Assembling a decisive invasion force to take and hold a specific objective usually won’t work.

And while all this is happening, keep Japan under control.

Most games I also see the Germans try to keep the BB alive, and add something to the navy (dd/cv/tpt). IMO you have to project some kind of early threat to both the UK and Russia, be able to use the fleet as a threat to strike the allied fleet (w/air power), and the most important is to have the ability to defend/counter attack Norway/Finland (income swing, and very strategic). If the Allies go north to Iceland at least I know Italy (and possibly North Africa) is safer, and I can set-up proper blocks/defenses (which includes attack and counter attack abilities). In this game it is generally easier and less painful for the Germans to allow an allied landing and  kill it right after, then it is to attempt to take out a strong Allied combo fleet. So if the allies go the northern route they will need a strong navy (can take a hit and survive), and figure out a way to first take out the German Baltic fleet to make any landings stick.

If the Allies are perched at Gib sz91, it gives them several options if they have the numbers (doubtful in the early game). The Germans could attack the Gib fleet, but that would most likely be very costly to the German navy/air force. However it could be worth it if the Allies come over to soon and don’t have enough (could include some help from the Italians to clear landing spots, or double hit). The allies could also have blocked out sz110 so the German fleet can’t hit Gib sz91 (maybe Italy can help with that, maybe not). Not knowing the Allied plan the Axis will probably block out some of the Allied options. The Germans won’t give the Allies free access to Norway unless they know they can remove the landing force immediately after (which would probably include UK land/air units). Typically the Germans would place a blocker in sz110 (move or purchase a dd/ca) so the Allies can’t reach Norway. This forces a delay, and might give the Germans a round to set-up more defenses and/or counter strikes if the Allied do indeed go north, but that also means spending less income on the Russian front. It also allows the allies to move to England so the UK can drop a carrier etc…then the cat and mouse fun begins.

Good point simon33, they do.  :?