Holland Airbase before Sealion?

So that means if neither side has a DD but both have subs, the sneak attack is effectively negated so long as the defender takes the casualties on the subs which will sneak attack before being removed, to continue the explanation.

@ShadowHAwk:

@simon33:

So that means if neither side has a DD but both have subs, the sneak attack is effectively negated so long as the defender takes the casualties on the subs which will sneak attack before being removed, to continue the explanation.

Well technically yes the sneak attack wont do that much since the subs would fire back anyway.
Then again if the defender only has subs he would be better of just submerging.

Agreed if he only has subs, but the defender may want to keep his sub(s) in the battle as fodder if he has  higher valued warships in the battle. Although his sub only defends at “1” it will take a hit as it gets a shot off, it would be situational.

Hey guys just so you know, this is Germany’s submarine setup:
I submarine in each of these spaces:
104
108
117
118
124

None of these can reach 101 (Amercian cruiser and transport) Note that your submarine in 117 can reach, but the rulebook States that during the combat move you must stop the movement of a submarine once it reaches an enemy destroyer (the one in 106).

Three can reach 106 (Canadain destroyer and transport)

Two can reach 91 (British cruiser)

Two can reach 110 (British battleship and cruiser and French cruiser)  Keep in mind that destroyers block your other subs’ movements.

All five can reach 109 (British destroyer and transport)

Three can reach 111 (British battleship, cruiser, and destroyer)

Hope this helps.

de Gaulle

Oh hold on, the one in SZ103 can reach SZ101.

Good morning guys,

Don’t forget that 1) subs can only hit ships 2) planes cannot hit subs once all DDs are dead

This dynamic means that there are situations where the subs fire (not first strike), the dd(s) is killed, the return fire is taken, and then the transports are killed (if any are there and if any subs survive) and the battle ends.    This is because in the second round of the battle there are only subs attacking and planes defending, which is a null result because they cannot hit each other.

Teflon;  We would have to search back about 9 months but there were a series of very well laid out openers for Germany posted here and they are extremely detailed…its pretty much a package attack to get the abs optimum odds with the hit + run that tries to optimally wipe out SZ 110 and SZ 111, with the Canadian DD and gib Cruiser attacks as potential gravy.  All of them committed every plane that can come (everything except 1 Tac and 1 fighter), no planes to France, and had pretty much devastating odds for a clean victory.

@simon33:

Oh hold on, the one in SZ103 can reach SZ101.

My bad.  The setup doc I was looking at said 104 but I checked my original game setup box/chart and it says 103. I’ll fix my other post.

@Charles:

Hey guys just so you know, this is Germany’s submarine setup:
1 submarine in each of these spaces:
103
108
117
118
124

One can reach 101 (American cruiser and transport)

Four can reach 106 (Canadain destroyer and transport)

Two can reach 91 (British cruiser)

Two can reach 110 (British battleship and cruiser and French cruiser)

All five can reach 109 (British destroyer and transport)

Two can reach 111 (British battleship, cruiser, and destroyer)

Hope this helps.

de Gaulle

@WILD-BILL said in Holland Airbase before Sealion?:

Purchasing an AB for Holland is a one time benefit unless it also keeps your navy safe after the attack on London as well (is US in the war, and are they in position).

@taamvan said in Holland Airbase before Sealion?:

My general analysis is that you need at least 2 incremental reasons to rationally build an airbase (though the reasons could derive from the same situation on the same turn).

I have thought about this idea a bit and then found this thread.

Actually I think there are several points in building an AB in Holland G1.

The obvious one is of course having a chance to save Bismarck with a possible 3 fighter scramble.

Another is that you manage to take out a bigger part of the British fleet in turn 1, especially both BS, instead of having to chase down a damaged BS and possibly also a CR in G2.

The main point however I feel is that leaving a damaged BS in SZ 110 with a scramble opportunity leaves the British a pretty tough call to make. Either go heavy on Bismarck or heavy in Taranto. I don’t believe they can do both. Especially when Germany lands atleast one fighter in S Italy.

Strafing SZ 111 is nice for actually making sure to save Bismarck, but that also takes away the choice for the British. In a weird way it makes their life easier.

If it’s possible to also attack SZ 91 with 2 subs (risking sacrificing air in SZ 110), then Italy will likely be in a very good position. Those subs are probably better used in SZ 110 though, acting mainly as canon fodder both in attack and defense.

Yet other points of an AB is the long-term merit of having a wider range into the Atlantic as well as pretty heavy protection of the SZ 110 if Germany decides to anchor there. Also the air that is stationed in Holland fully reach SZ 97 and can land in W Germany if the British still decides on the Taranto attack.

I totally agree with that an AC in G1 is much more flexible and likely a better buy, but I’m still intrigued by the idea of the AB in Holland. Anyway, it’s definitely not useless.

You’ll still sometimes see the damaged Bismark attacked in SZ112, even with the 3 plane scramble.

But let’s go with your premise. The SZ91 cruiser and SZ109 DD can still attack your Bismark in SZ110 and then the planes can retreat to Gibraltar for a SZ92 stack . I would guess that this presumes that there was no scramble in SZ110. So perhaps if the UK scrambles anyway, the Bismark might survive the attack and the UK might not be able to weaken Italy.